Police Check

[Sparksandbangs]

I don't like the idea of a law that only applies with discression and consideration because those are down to individuals' opinions and attitudes. There is then no border of what's allowed and what's not. IMHO, they could make it much simpler by making it legal to ride on any footpath, but make it a crime to injure anyone or do damage while doing it.

But that is how enforcement of the law has always worked. A blind eye turned today will become a hammer to crack a nut tomorrow.

 

[flecc]

I don't like the idea of a law that only applies with discression and consideration because those are down to individuals' opinions and attitudes. There is then no border of what's allowed and what's not. IMHO, they could make it much simpler by making it legal to ride on any footpath, but make it a crime to injure anyone or do damage while doing it.

But that is how enforcement of the law has always worked. A blind eye turned today will become a hammer to crack a nut tomorrow.

It is of course already a crime to injure anyone or do damage in many circumstances, so no additonal legislation necessary. However, making it legal to cycle on any footpath is opening the floodgates, so it's worth looking at the background to Boateng's permission.

By the 1980s with near universal car ownership the British appeared to have lost the used of their legs, driving everywhere, resulting in clogged roads and pavements empty everywhere except shopping centres. Accordingly the government passed the Cycle Tracks Act 1984, authorising local authorities to create shared use pavements. Its stated express intention was to get cyclists to transfer to pavements to a considerable extent.

However the act failed to achieve as much transfer as government hoped for over the following years, so the intention of Boateng was to loosen the reins by encouraging some cycling on ANY pavement, whether shared use or not, but still with some control over numbers. That control being the provision that it should only be where the cyclist felt threatened by the traffic conditions and with due regard for the safety and comfort of pedestrians present having priority.
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[Baz the balloon man]

That is permitted.

Cyclists can ride on the pavement in some circumstances, details quoted below. Read right through to the end, showing this still applies:

"On 1st August 1999, new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway. However the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. The then Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that:

“The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required.”

Almost identical advice has since been issued by the Home Office with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by ‘Community Support Officers’ and wardens.

“CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.

I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004)

In a January 2014 letter to Donnachadh McCarthy of the pressure group Stop Killing Cyclists, roads minister Robert Goodwill said Boeteng’s advice was still valid.

Goodwill said: “Thank you for bringing the issue of cycling on the pavement around dangerous junctions…to my attention. I agree that the police should be using discretion in enforcing this law and would support Paul Boateng’s original guidance.”

The Association of Chief Police Officers then circulated this reiteration of the 1999 advice to all local police forces. ACPO’s National Policing Lead for Cycling Assistant Chief Constable Mark Milsom said: “We welcome the re-issued guidance from the Minister for Cycling in respect of cycling on the pavement and have re-circulated this to all local forces.”

So in summary, your can take to the pavements where traffic makes that necessary for your safety, so long as you have care and consideration for pedestrians, ride slowly in their presence and give way to them where that is advisable.
.

Thanks very helpful , I have met Paul a few times at a country show and in court when he was a Barrister he used to live not far from us .

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Of course if you were riding an illegal ebike while drunk then you would come under motor vehicle rules. You could then be breathalysed, no tax, no insurance, no helmet. Far more serious.

There is no legal intoxication limit for someone on a cycle. It is officers discretion. So it is down to how you behave. If you are steaming drunk then you are more likely to be stopped. As always you will probably be fine and unlikely to be stopped, until you aren't.

It’s not a very sensible thing to do ride anything if one was legless. A few pints of low ABV Ale is ok I think

 

[AndyBike]

Is it illegal to ride a cycle whilst stoned or if you had say 3 or 4 pint’s

Alcohol and drugs - Cycle Law Scotland

Cycling on a road or other public place (including a bridleway) whilst unfit through drink or drugs carries a fine of up to £1000.

roadtrafficaccidentlaw.co.uk

 

[soundwave]

my doctor said im better off on weed and cider than taking 10 tramadol a day

 

[saneagle]

my doctor said im better off on weed and cider than taking 10 tramadol a day

A good ride on your bike in the sun will fix anything. Regular cyclists 70 years old have immune systems comparible with average 30 year olds.

 

[Sparksandbangs]

You'd be better off chopping off your leg rather than your head. It doesn't mean either is a good idea.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I don't like the idea of a law that only applies with discression and consideration because those are down to individuals' opinions and attitudes. There is then no border of what's allowed and what's not. IMHO, they could make it much simpler by making it legal to ride on any footpath, but make it a crime to injure anyone or do damage while doing it.

Yes that makes sense a bit more clarity.

I think the same when I see cyclists jumping red lights .
Some times say at a cross roads with pedestrian crossing lights all vehicles are stoped and no body is crossing the road in this case I think a cyclist should be allowed to go through if safe to do so provided they have first stopped and not just fly through any red lights.

Some times if I am in a hurry in situations like this I get off walk the bikes through with the pedestrians then carry on my way .

I have heard of cyclists who have a driving licence getting points for jumping lights .
Does any one know if this is fact ?

 

[AndyBike]

I like to think of us as being pedestrians with wheels.

 

[Nealh]

Cyclists in London are reported by the MET and receive fines and points on their licence, . Illegal bikes one gets six points.

 

[guerney]

Looking at arrests on Youtube, rozzers have a far easier time seizing legal and illegal bikes being used in a legal manner considerately or not, in pedestrianised areas, even when they attempt escape. You're less likely to be checked on the road? They're busy speeding to tick boxes.

 

[sjpt]

I like to think of us as being pedestrians with wheels.

Fair enough, as long as you keep to pedestrian speeds.

 

[flecc]

Fair enough, as long as you keep to pedestrian speeds.

Prompted the mischievous thought that Usain Bolt is a pedestrian and he can reach 26mph!
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[Sparksandbangs]

Cyclists in London are reported by the MET and receive fines and points on their licence

I'm fairly sure that is not the case. I can not find any reliable source to back up that assertion. Happy to be proved wrong.

 

[saneagle]

Cyclists COULD face penalty points.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/dangerous-cyclists-face-penalty-points-on-their-driving-licence-5HjcqsM_2/

There are indeed reports of cyclists getting FPNs telling them to accept the points on their licences along with the fine, but these are deemed to be administrative errors. The law has not yet been changed to allow it.

Government consultation. Look at point 2.10. IIRC, they re-defined some offences and increased the penalties, but didn't include points on licences that cylists don't have:

Cycling and Walking Investment Strategy safety review: proposals for new cycling offences

www.gov.uk

Obviously, if your bike doesn't meet the EAPC requirements and becomes an illegal motor vehicle, they can throw the book at you.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I like to think of us as being pedestrians with wheels.

Well one way of looking at it is If a cyclist on a EPAC legal one is using walk assist only at 4MPH as this is governed by the use of Disability Scooters/chairs one could argue that in this case there is no difference between Two or Four Wheels.

Ie a disabled person could still be on his or her bike .

Not sure if this would work in a court

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Cyclists COULD face penalty points.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/dangerous-cyclists-face-penalty-points-on-their-driving-licence-5HjcqsM_2/

There are indeed reports of cyclists getting FPNs telling them to accept the points on their licences along with the fine, but these are deemed to be administrative errors. The law has not yet been changed to allow it.

Government consultation. Look at point 2.10. IIRC, they re-defined some offences and increased the penalties, but didn't include points on licences that cylists don't have:

Cycling and Walking Investment Strategy safety review: proposals for new cycling offences

www.gov.uk

Obviously, if your bike doesn't meet the EAPC requirements and becomes an illegal motor vehicle, they can throw the book at you.

Let’s stick to road legal EPCS or cycling as we are aware that an illegal one is a motor bike .

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Prompted the mischievous thought that Usain Bolt is a pedestrian and he can reach 26mph!
.

A young man passed me on the Brent Cross Fly over on a high end racing cycle the other day I WAS DOING 20MPH down hill after my motor cut out at 15MPH. He must have been doing 30ish no motor

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Cyclists in London are reported by the MET and receive fines and points on their licence, . Illegal bikes one gets six points.

I have heard this too , not really fair if some one does not have a licence .

If the government wants more people to ditch cars then they need to find ways of keeping cyclists and EPACS Moving .

That said I have had my fair share of Two wheel traffic jams in Saigon especially on a holiday when most Vietnamese head out onto the streets for fun .