Police crackdown on illegal e-bikes

[JohnCade]

They sound as if they would be good places to cycle on even with an s pedelec. Very unlike most of our cycleways which are designed for very slow shopper bikes, and mix walkers, dogs and children together. Those are my memories of them anyway but there aren't any where I live now. I used to avoid them and stick to the roads when I lived in London.

 

[EddiePJ]

If you want cycle routes around Germany, then you need look no further than this. http://www.adfc.de/deutschland/alle-routen/uebersicht-aller-routen-aus-deutschland-per-rad-entdecken

 

[allen-uk]

Whether a court has the power is not the important thing, it's whether their rulings will be enforced, a very different matter in practice.

.

Just so.

Here in NW London the police only attend burgularies if they're not too busy. Likewise the main traffic policing is done by speed cameras and traffic wardens. The result? Anarchy, of course. A casual observer would think that talking on a mobile phone whilst driving was compulsory rather than illegal.

Where we had traffic cops, we now have memories.

So just who is going to police these stringent ebike regulations?

Maybe they're expecting our local ageing hobby-bobbies to run alongside ebikes and take down their particulars.

A

 

[jonathan75]

Agreed, but once again the practice is different. In a transport example close to us, EU motor vehicle type approval directive 2002/EC/24 was issued to all member states on 9th May 2003 with a requirement to implement it within six months, combined with a demand that all conflicting national legislation be repealed. We missed the implementation deadline by one day and failed to remove conflicting legislation.

The DfT were certainly aware of this by 2005 at the latest, but on the 10th of this month this situation will have been in place for fully eleven years, despite constant requests to resolve the situation. It means that all our 250 watt rated e-bikes are and have been illegal for all of those eleven years, though in April last year the DfT arranged with police forces that they would no longer attempt a prosecution since the change to 250 watts was to be made with intended harmonisation measures. They later said that the change was scheduled for 2016 (13 years late!).

That's just one example of why I have little faith in UK or EU law to protect me or my rights.
.

Wow - yes I think you put your argument very well. I think the problem here, not just for you but for everyone (except specialist EU lawyers) is the difference between your rights (as implied by caselaw) and those expressed in statute. The important statute here is one which points BACK, annoyingly enough, at the caselaw, i.e. this bit (s 2(1)). So you are made not much wiser about the actual content of those rights.

The idea of statutes is supposed to be that we know what they mean, we don't have to be experts, we just turn to their plain meaning. That hasn't happened here. Your rights are hidden in what to non-EU lawyers are very very obscure principles of EU law, developed mainly through the cases. But I assure you they are there! I'm writing an essay partly on this very theme at the moment, the rule of law (a key pillar of which is that legal rules ought to be reasonably easily knowable). That principle seems to have failed with the ebike rules.

 

[Richy]

Just so.

Here in NW London the police only attend burgularies if they're not too busy. Likewise the main traffic policing is done by speed cameras and traffic wardens. The result? Anarchy, of course. A casual observer would think that talking on a mobile phone whilst driving was compulsory rather than illegal.

Where we had traffic cops, we now have memories.

So just who is going to police these stringent ebike regulations?

Maybe they're expecting our local ageing hobby-bobbies to run alongside ebikes and take down their particulars.

A

Surely this is what the police do best, standing on the side of the road checking bicycles would be easy. Makes them feel like they are doing something. Plus they have pretty much blank cheque for stuff like this. Crime requiring evidence they don't have man power for in my experience.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

..... and perfect timing. Spotted a whole fleet of Police out in Manchester this morning. At least 15 offices, probably more. Working on Deansgate in the city centre. Stopping cyclists for all sorts of things, and checking bikes. I went for a chat with them about a few things and we did talk eBikes for a bit.

 

[MikeRo]

..... and perfect timing. Spotted a whole fleet of Police out in Manchester this morning. At least 15 offices, probably more. Working on Deansgate in the city centre. Stopping cyclists for all sorts of things, and checking bikes. I went for a chat with them about a few things and we did talk eBikes for a bit.

Is that what we've come down to- cycling proficiency Police?? Hope they warned him about that saddle.

 

[SRS]

..... and perfect timing. Spotted a whole fleet of Police out in Manchester this morning. At least 15 offices, probably more. Working on Deansgate in the city centre. Stopping cyclists for all sorts of things, and checking bikes. I went for a chat with them about a few things and we did talk eBikes for a bit.

Ride your bike like you have stolen it. That way they will pay no attention to you at all.

 

[abarth]

I cant believe all this thread about whether a bike is capable of 17 mph or 28 mph.
What about all these lycra clad cyclists on road bikes who regularly pass me doing at least 25-30 mph on the straight or down hill.
I guess the police in the picture are not interested in the capable speed of the bike just whether they are safe or not, brakes, lights,tyres etc.
Thankfully my BH bike which is capable of at least 28mph looks like a normal road bike ,no exposed battery or mid drive motor.

 

[tillson]

What about all these lycra clad cyclists on road bikes who regularly pass me doing at least 25-30 mph on the straight or down hill.

What about them? Perfectly legal and you can join them if you wish. If you can't pedal that fast under your own effort, nature will dictate the correct speed for you

 

[allen-uk]

As usual, it's all about an Easy Knick.

Dangerous driving (OR cycling) is far harder to prove than having a defective brake-light (or a 500w motor).

A

 

[Kudoscycles]

I cant believe all this thread about whether a bike is capable of 17 mph or 28 mph.
What about all these lycra clad cyclists on road bikes who regularly pass me doing at least 25-30 mph on the straight or down hill.
I guess the police in the picture are not interested in the capable speed of the bike just whether they are safe or not, brakes, lights,tyres etc.
Thankfully my BH bike which is capable of at least 28mph looks like a normal road bike ,no exposed battery or mid drive motor.

I actually agree with you,it's a shame that this forum always seems to focus upon the legality aspects of what are obviously illegal bikes it would be nice to have threads that compare the performance,quality,price etc of various e-bikes. Is a legal KTM bike better than a legal Kalkhoff? Is a European built bike better value/quality than a Chinese built bike? Is a 250 watt BPM hub motor better hillclimber than a 250 watt Bosch crank drive? Is a heavy but long life LifePo4 better value than a 3/4 year Lithium Ion battery? What's it like to live with a small battery to achieve light weight,such as the Freego Raptor.
There are so many subjects I would be interested in forum members opinions but we seem set on one subject.
KudosDave

 

[Wander]

I actually agree with you,it's a shame that this forum always seems to focus upon the legality aspects of what are obviously illegal bikes it would be nice to have threads that compare the performance,quality,price etc of various e-bikes. Is a legal KTM bike better than a legal Kalkhoff? Is a European built bike better value/quality than a Chinese built bike? Is a 250 watt BPM hub motor better hillclimber than a 250 watt Bosch crank drive? Is a heavy but long life LifePo4 better value than a 3/4 year Lithium Ion battery? What's it like to live with a small battery to achieve light weight,such as the Freego Raptor.
There are so many subjects I would be interested in forum members opinions but we seem set on one subject.
KudosDave

Know what you mean however it seems to me that the trade members are more obsessed by the subject than us 'normal' members.

 

[SRS]

What about them? Perfectly legal and you can join them if you wish. If you can't pedal that fast under your own effort, nature will dictate the correct speed for you

It will.
That's why people then choose to use an illegal e-bike.
Humans are always trying to beat nature.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Know what you mean however it seems to me that the trade members are more obsessed by the subject than us 'normal' members.

I agree with that,which is why for a period i stopped posting on here for a while,but on return there seems little change. It is quite important to us in the trade if there is a mechanism to register S class bicycles as bicycles,which would allow me to legally compete with the likes of the BS10 machines and James appeared confident that was possible, so I tried to extricate the mechanism from him,but it seems he was mistaken.
I'll move on elsewhere.
KudosDave

 

[allen-uk]

I think the point goes deeper than illegality or humans wanting to push limits.

After all, there is no continuous discussion about the fact that it's illegal to ride a bike blindfolded at 20mph through a crowded shopping street.

It's when a law is perceived to be too harsh, or just plain wrong, that people begin to mutter and complain. The ebike regulations are seen as ill-conceived and unnecessarily draconian. Hence we mutter, and complain.

A