Powabyke Commuter Forks

Griswold

Pedelecer
May 17, 2007
34
0
Hello,

Ive heard that Powabyke are releasing retro fit suspension forks for the Commuter bike - should be available in 4 weeks time.
Should be good - will improve the bike, I own one and dont like my hands almost coming off the grips when going downhill fast, braking and hitting bumps in the road.
 

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
Good to hear Powabyke improving their product.

While I'm no fan of suspension forks, I'd be prepared to make an exception in the case of a Powabyke (or Ezee and any other front hub motor bikes), where, in my experience, the heavy motor in the front wheel makes the bike quite uncomfortable on a less than perfect surface.

Frank
 

nigel

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 18, 2006
467
0
nigel

At last it seems to take powabyke ages to make any changes but this one was long over due i wish that when i had a powabyke that it had suspension it will help with all that weight:D
 

Griswold

Pedelecer
May 17, 2007
34
0
Hello,

Powabyke told me this when I asked them about Lithium batteries.

The should be available from any Powabyke dealer in 4 weeks.

Im getting mine from bikesandbatterys.co.uk where I got my commuter from.

I believe theyre about £50.

Cant believe Powabkye dont publicise more about their products!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,848
30,402
Cant believe Powabyke dont publicise more about their products!
They've always relied on their extensive dealer network, combined with good support when things go wrong. Personally a wish a few more would operate that way. ;)
.
 

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
I agree, Flecc. The people behind Powabyke may not have invested as much as others in developing their product but at least they have given a little bit of thought to their business model and route to market!

Most people want to buy bikes from a local dealer and want to get them fixed there. Powabyke has realised this and has a good network in place. To keep this network it must be giving dealers the support they need to help their (ie the dealer's) customers. For example, they don't try to compete with their dealers by selling direct from their website; if you want to buy, they provide a list of dealers.

That, plus the fact that there products are competitively priced, explains their UK market leadership. It's not rocket science. What is surprising is that many others don't seem to be copying the key elements of this model and are going for a vertically integrated model which will (in my opinion) limit their chances of success.

Of the others, I can only think of Urbanmover who have really embraced this. Similar story - I've not been particularly impressed by their products compared to others, but they look good and I have spoken to two of their dealers who both love them.

Frank
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,848
30,402
The similarly named Powacycle seem to make an effort in the direction of this business model, with a gradually increasing dealer network. I've no idea of how strong their dealer support is, but they are remarkable in not having the technical and customer service complaints reported in here that so many other makes suffer. They must be to getting quite a few things right.

Internet selling is clearly the way to go for future success with many products, but I don't think that can be true for products that need after market service and repairs. That's the simple reason why cars haven't followed other products in having success there, despite many highly publicised efforts.

The long term future for all vehicle types is through local sales and service, and as Frank remarked, it's the clear reason that Powabyke are far and away the largest. It's certainly not their technical superiority! :rolleyes:
.
 

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
Agreed!

I think Powacycle is getting most of it right. They are quietly building up a network, however I feel they are short-sighted in trying to sell direct from their web site and not providing a list of dealers. I would imagine that does not endear them to their dealers as much as the Powabyke 'publicise and refer' model.

A few years ago I did some work for Microsoft, a company if ever there was one that proves that the winner is the one with the best business model not the best product. They took great pains to ensure all leads from a particular web site were referred to their channel. This was absolutely not an act of philanthropy, rather they knew what their strategy and business model were and stuck ruthlessly to it!

Frank
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,848
30,402
That's true Frank, trying to do it through dealers and direct is always a mistake. I think in a sense Urban Mover may not be on the right lines by using online dealers as well as local ones, it muddies the picture, where the Powabyke position is absolutely clear, only local dealers with service.
.
 

electric.mike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 16, 2007
342
49
grimsby
this is only my opinion as to suspension forks on a powabyke but i thought a word of caution would not be out of place, as flecc has said (i believe ) suspension forks are far from perfect and with the front weight and power of a powabyke they may not be right for all riders.
my bike is mostly ridden at no more than 10mph and then with care, at a leisurely cruise i would expect no problems, but flat out in all circumstances may prove to be a different case.
perhaps a knowledgeable answer from some one, placed permanently in this thread would not be out of place FLECC

mike
 

ITSPETEINIT

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 11, 2006
492
0
Mere, Wilts
Sole Distributors versus the Dealer Network

That's true Frank, trying to do it through dealers and direct is always a mistake. I think in a sense Urban Mover may not be on the right lines by using online dealers as well as local ones, it muddies the picture, where the Powabyke position is absolutely clear, only local dealers with service.
.
This ‘sub-topic’ would be invaluable to new entrants into the world of the electric bike. Perhaps the Administrator would consider opening a separate thread: it started life as "Powabyke Commuter Forks". Would a 'Sticky' be appropriate?


There is no one facet to consider before any other when making the choice of Which? bike. Too much is concentrated on the model and its performance.
Much has been posted in the last week or so on the merits or otherwise between Sole Distributorship and Dealer Network and the transparency of the service promised to be given.

The absence of competition in the Sole Dealership (virtual monopoly) scenario, once entered, denies the customer the opportunity to shop around for a better balanced deal on before-and-after-sales service. He may even be illegally ostracised by the supplier. Alternative opportunity would free the customer from the constraints imposed by one supplier/ manufacturer.

Cutting out a ‘middleman’ has possibly increased margins for those suppliers remaining in the chain (there is one less mark-up to provide) but it will do little for the end user if the benefits are not passed on in the form of price competition and an equal and transparent service.
The point made concerning ‘denial’, when faults appear in the product, are all too prevalent. How easy it is for the supplier to say when confronted by a problem “No one else has had this problem/complained”. Not being privy to the correspondence the supplier has had with his customers, who can deny what is said. Something that is not capable of proof should be carefully weighed before being offered in evidence by the supplier. I think of it as the “Peugeot 207 Syndrome”. This is similar to the question of the Giant Twist dealer denial of trouble with the charger.

How does one answer the obfuscation of suppliers in denial? One can only take the matter elsewhere for a solution.
Internet Trading – Trading at a distance – has created all sorts of problems for the consumer which, in the last analysis can only be redressed by going to law: an expensive and uncertain problem solving route. One rarely gets the opportunity to check out the supplier’s premises (set up); their business philosophy; even their business policy when a supplier is so far removed from the majority of his customer base. Is this a 'given' in an internet trading company's policy? As with so many other forms of contract one does not interpret the 'form of words' of the small print until one has a claim.

What information there is on the company, the manufacturer and the products are all, in the main and for all practical purposes, contained within the website. There is little or no printed matter, to read, to digest, to form an opinion: the evidence of the terms of the contract must be printed by the customer. That information may be incomplete: not what one might expect when one considers it. Some abbreviated or vague clauses go uncorrected despite repeated requests for clarification, ultimately damaging the relationship between customer and supplier.

If one were to apply rigidly the test of ‘caveat emptor’, one would never buy anything of significant cost/value on the internet.

I cannot quite understand the reluctance of aggrieved end users to publish the name of their tormentor on the Forum. Perhaps that is not what the Forum is for. Of course it is only reasonable to engage the supplier in private correspondence in the beginning. Indeed it may be that the first communication should be made by telephone (complaint in writing tends to raise the profile of a claim). One must eventually resort to writing (including e-mail) because that is the only way to keep a record of the negotiation. Furthermore, the writing must, at some time, be formalized if the claim is to be admitted at law - which may be an inevitable consequence of dealing with an intractable supplier.

If a supplier company trades by the internet/Forum he may be criticized on the internet/Forum, His products may be examined under the light of the internet/Forum in order to reach a consensus with other complainant owners/users who the supplier has or could deny exist.

Long life and power to the Forum.

Peter
.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,848
30,402
this is only my opinion as to suspension forks on a powabyke but i thought a word of caution would not be out of place, as flecc has said (i believe ) suspension forks are far from perfect and with the front weight and power of a powabyke they may not be right for all riders.
my bike is mostly ridden at no more than 10mph and then with care, at a leisurely cruise i would expect no problems, but flat out in all circumstances may prove to be a different case.
perhaps a knowledgeable answer from some one, placed permanently in this thread would not be out of place FLECC

mike
In my suspension article, although critical of the inefficiency of suspension on bicycles, I gave a cautious approval of suspension forks where a front wheel motor is fitted, since the hammering due to the motor's unsprung weight can cause discomfort up into the handlebars and wrists.

The balance was that if the motor is providing much of the drive, so pedalling efficiency is less important, the bias is to acceptance of suspension forks. Conversely, if the rider is providing much of the motive power with the motor only in support, rigid forks are better for the rider's efficiency if any discomfort is acceptable. That's why the Torq has rigid forks, but nearly all the other eZee bikes have suspension.

The front wheel motors of the Powabyke heavy lead acid versions are largely tamed by the bike's weight, the ratio of motor weight to bike weight being low* compared to much lighter bikes, so suspension forks aren't too important on those. Now that Powabyke are introducing bikes as low as 28 kilos, the need for suspension forks will arise more often, so they're showing themselves fully up to speed where this development is concerned.

However, in summary, most Powabyke users do not pedal very much, or put in low pedal effort, and for them suspension forks are a benefit. Having them as an option on either weight of their bikes is good therefore, since the more keen cyclist who wants to put in effective pedal effort can opt out. So the final decision is with the users preferences, comfort or efficiency.

*To explain this asterisked point above, it's not the absolute unsprung weight that matters, but the proportion of that weight to the rest of the vehicle's weight. To illustrate with extremes, a 1 kilo motor as it bounces won't throw about a 40 kilo bike, it's like an 8 stone man trying to throw a 22 stone man in wrestling, but a 6 kilo motor will throw about a 20 kilo bike, transmitting the force up to the bars and the rider.
.
 

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
You do actually get a fair hammering through the handlebars on a steel/lead acid Powabyke. My wife rode it down a towpath (ie untarred) and compared it to operating a pneumatic drill!

Frank
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,848
30,402
Yes, all front motor bikes with rigid forks do hammer uncomfortably Frank, but the heavy Powabyke isn't as bad as lighter ones. Your wife would be really shocked by the much lighter Torq in the same conditions. That it's tooth jarring isn't picking on the Torq, just a reflection that there aren't many rigid fork bikes to compare to these days.

The comparisons aren't really valid if the tyres and tyre pressures aren't similar though.
.
 

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
Is a Torq really worse than a Powabyke?

With the non-appearance of the Wisper SE, I was just coming back round to the idea of getting a Torq in November. However, if it really is that bad, I'll dismiss it!

The Powabyke is obviously fine on smooth roads, but it is bad enough that I change my route to avoid certain streets that have suffered being dug up a few times.

Frank
 

Griswold

Pedelecer
May 17, 2007
34
0
My Powabyke commuter isnt too bad normally.
Ive changed the rather hideous saddle for a Body Geometry Gel saddle.
This helps to soak up the bumps.
Normally its OK on the hands - its just at speed downhill when you hit a bump and you almost lose your grip - Ive found that I can operate the front brake with one finger, and the rear with 2 fingers so Im not in danger of losing control.

Ive ridden the bike up Portsdown hill several times near where I live, coming down at speed is great fun and will be better with the suspension forks.

I ride the bike flat out pedalling most if the time - Im rarely out of the top gear.
The pedal assistance is great.
I wouldnt usually bother with my normal bike at all if I didnt have the commuter.
Ive seem some great sunsets over Portsmouth from Portsdown Hill - its fun.
Im going for the Lite 2.5 KG Lithium battery option soon, so in my opinion the bike will improve vastly.
It looks better without the mudguards and carrier which Ive removed.
Overall for my purposes its a great bike.
When I said its a shame Powabyke dont publicise more, I meant that I wouldnt have known about the forks if I hadnt contacted Powabyke on a different matter, they told me about the forks in passing.
I check their website out sometimes - and it doesnt appear to be updated often - WHY? They have a good product, they are making improvements - Let us know about them!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,848
30,402
Well, you've seen lots on here about that Frank, with the padded handgrip thread pre-occupied with the Torq and it's front discomfort. There's been loads previously about this, and I've had emails direct from my Torq Talk site about it. There have also been queries about the possibility of fitting suspension forks to the Torq.

By contrast, your's is the only mention in here, or that I've ever seen, of the Powabyke in this context of discomfort, so with a few Powabyke owners and ex owners in here, you can judge from that. Also, no-one ever mentioned having suspension on one before the Powabyke announcement. Clearly the consensus is that the Torq is noted for this. It's a very long time since I've ridden a Powabyke last, but I don't ever remember noting front discomfort, something that couldn't be missed on the Torq.

I think if you find the Powabyke bad, you should definitely test ride a Torq on a poor or unmade road before committing. Personally I couldn't countenance riding one on an unmade surface.
.
 

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
That is defintely the right advice, Flecc! I did test drive a Torq and didn't particularly note a rough handlebar experience, even on the cobbled mews where Tim from 50 cycles has his base, but it was the first electric bike I had ridden so probably couldn't see past 'Wow this is amazing!'

I am surprised others haven't found the Powabyke heavy on the handlebars. It is fine on a reasonably smooth road. Maybe it is because my area has a couple of streets which have suffered some serious road scarring from the cable people, Thames Water, British Gas, etc having reapeated digs. But it's a heavy motor and once it starts bouncing around on a rough surface, that goes right up to the handlebars. Also it has a long frame which makes you lean forward and hence you are more exposed to handlebar shake.

I have my tyres fairly hard, at about 50psi. I think I'll drop the front one down to the minimum - that might help.

Griswold - glad to hear you are enjoying yours. One thing the Powabyke is great for is hills. On my way to work I go up Holland Park Avenue, which is a long old pull up a reasonably big hill for West London, and the Powabyke just grinds its way up at about 13-14mph without me having to come out of top gear!

I do agree with you that Powabyke could do a bit more with their website, but I guess they just focus everything on keeping their dealers happy and the website is not top priority for them.

Frank
 
Last edited:

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,848
30,402
I think you may have "hit the nail on the head" with your remark on the Powabyke's heavy motor Frank. Depending on what weight of Powabyke model you have, if the ratio of the motor/wheel weight to the rest of the bike's weight is the same as the Torq, which it might be, the discomfort level would be the same.

On the Torq it's about one sixth of the weight of the whole bike, so on a 40 kilo Powabyke model about 6.6 kilos would make it the same. Any heavier and it would be more uncomfortable on rough surfaces.

My Powabyke memory from some while ago is probably no more reliable than your momentary first Torq experience, first impressions are the problem. With the Torq, that's of it's speed on a bike! With the Powabyke SLA, that's of the sheer weight for a bike!
 
Last edited: