Powabyke - X Byke - Retail Pics (pic heavy)

[flecc]

Frank told me the motor is identical to the one used in their old powabykes. This tells me two things:-
1 - whilst big and heavy it will be reliable and tough.
2 - It WILL scale near vertical slopes with tons of luggage.

Not necessarily Phil, this remains to be shown, since it depends on what the controller allows. Small lithium batteries are not particularly good at very high current delivery and I have seen one reference to 400 watts peak with this motor. The motor on the old lead acid bikes peaked as high as 700 watts at around 7 mph, hence that prodigious hill climbing.

Although I still think it will be a good climber, I still await confirmation that the lithium battery could consistently deliver 20 amps to give 700 watts. And of course, if it did deliver 20 amps it could be all over in a 20 minute hill climb on that battery, further underlining how unlikely it is that it does have the same power level.
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[Rad]

A more more serious problem for the rocket launcher may be the attention from security guards in London, bike bombs are quite viable and have been considered a serious threat before. This could spark off a security incident.
The brochure appears to have multiple chainwheels, it's disappointing that the final model doesn't.

The X-24 as a 24 speed will have multiple chainwheels. The X-6 is only a six speed so just needs the one.

Would there be any difference in going downhill at speed on this bike and hitting a pothole and doing the same on my ordinary hybrid?

 

[Mattyduk]

As an aside I saw the Infineum at the show too. It was tucked away in a relatively quiet corner of the show with a girl on the stand who seemed just a little unsure about many of it's details. It did look good though - in this case it looked just like the publicity shots...

Cheers, Phil

well, thats good to know.However, shame they seem very unsure about when it's actually going to come out.

As for the x-byke, I think they should seriously consider doing some cosmetic updates as suggested here, to make it look like a "largish" water bottle.

 

[Rad]

I might put big radioactive symbol stickers on mine

 

[Phil the drill]

Would there be any difference in going downhill at speed on this bike and hitting a pothole and doing the same on my ordinary hybrid?

With that humping great motor between the (rigid) front forks......ohhhhh yes there would be!

Phil

 

[Phil the drill]

Not necessarily Phil, this remains to be shown, since it depends on what the controller allows. Small lithium batteries are not particularly good at very high current delivery and I have seen one reference to 400 watts peak with this motor. The motor on the old lead acid bikes peaked as high as 700 watts at around 7 mph, hence that prodigious hill climbing.

Although I still think it will be a good climber, I still await confirmation that the lithium battery could consistently deliver 20 amps to give 700 watts. And of course, if it did deliver 20 amps it could be all over in a 20 minute hill climb on that battery, further underlining how unlikely it is that it does have the same power level.
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Dohhh! senior moment! I clean forgot about the controller...... Your point is well taken, and of course then poses the question of why put this hefty old motor on the bike, if you can't use it's full potential? Surely a lighter weight well geared and more compact motor (Bafang or Tongxin) would have been a better bet under those circumstances?

Cheers, Phil

 

[Rad]

With that humping great motor between the (rigid) front forks......ohhhhh yes there would be!

Phil

Cheers Phil, I suspected the weight of the motor may play a part in that sort of scenario.

 

[flecc]

Surely a lighter weight well geared and more compact motor (Bafang or Tongxin) would have been a better bet under those circumstances?

Cheers, Phil

Maybe, but the Tongxin has had some troubles in the past and even the well known Bafang motors have their problems, a proportion failing in various ways, including one of mine.

With that old Powabyke motor, there's no hidden nasties and it has an enviable long reliability record. There's also the fact that it's very well known and understood by Powabyke's extensive dealer network. So although it's large, heavy and a bit noisy, it will unfailingly do anyone's job year in year out and always be repairable years into the future.

For many those are very desirable characteristics.

I've just been reading about the single battery Estelle Heinzmann, also a large old type rather heavy and noisy brush motor. That costs £1795, exactly £1000 more than this Powabyke, making it look like the bargain of the century!
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[Phil the drill]

Maybe, but the Tongxin has had some troubles in the past and even the well known Bafang motors have their problems, a proportion failing in various ways, including one of mine.

With that old Powabyke motor, there's no hidden nasties and it has an enviable long reliability record. There's also the fact that it's very well known and understood by Powabyke's extensive dealer network. So although it's large, heavy and a bit noisy, it will unfailingly do anyone's job year in year out and always be repairable years into the future.

For many those are very desirable characteristics.

I've just been reading about the single battery Estelle Heinzmann, also a large old type rather heavy and noisy brush motor. That costs £1795, exactly £1000 more than this Powabyke, making it look like the bargain of the century!
.

All perfectly true, but the X - bikes are a completely new range for Powabyke, and very much lighter than the old models. Even with this motor in, the weight of the bike is only 22-23Kg fairly light for an ebike and a featherweight by old Powabyke standards. The Tongxin motor seems to be behaving well in the Cytronex, (a similar concept bike) and the Bafang's are generally well thought of, so perhaps they should have taken the opportunity for a change.
Don't get me wrong, as an ex Powabyke user I have a lot of time for the old buses, they got me going again on a bike at a time when nothing else could have done the job I needed half as well. I rather hope that they don't completely ditch the old models because I still feel that they have a place - for all the reasons you mention. Just that for a new model, perhaps it's time for them to evolve....

P.S. I do feel that A to B and numerous others have something to answer for in the way they dismissed the old Powabykes. Many 'rubbished' them on the strength of their looks, and relative crudeness. Unlike others though they persisted for only two reasons, they WORKED (reliably), and they were well supported. I can think of a fair few 'trendier' ebikes that were initially classed as great improvements that totally failed to deliver the necessary goods in the field.

 

[flecc]

I agree that something like the Tongxin or Bafang would have been good Phil, but it wouldn't be possible in a £795 bike sold through dealers requiring a chunk of that as margin. The Cytronex sold direct at much lower costs started at £995 and is now going up by quite a lot. I'd prefer Powabyke to develop their own new motor to retain control, and maybe that will follow if the X bike is successful in the market

I also agree on much of your P.S., but in fairness to A to B they have given Powabyke quite good press and coverage over the years from the earliest days with several generally favourable articles, and Powabyke have been happy to continue advertising in their magazine.
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[Phil the drill]

I agree that something like the Tongxin or Bafang would have been good Phil, but it wouldn't be possible in a £795 bike sold through dealers
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Frank tells me that the X24 will retail at £895. This is the version closest to the Cytronex Trek. I agree that it is still relatively cheap for a retail supported e-bike though.

Phil

 

[Phil the drill]

Well the proof of the pudding as they say, is in the eating........ I'd like to hear any reports on these new Powabykes and how they fare.. I genuinely do hope that they deliver the goods, but I confess to being a little worried about the weight of that motor in unsuspended forks on such a comparatively light bike. The overall weight and rigidity of the old bike bike did, to my mind at least, go some way towards taking the emphasis off the weight on the front.
We'll no doubt find out soon how it's all going to pan out.

Phil

 

[Rod Tibbs]

For reliability read liability

I can't agree that Powabykes worked reliably. I had one from new for four years and in the end gave it up, partly through the sheer weight and partly because whenever I went out on it I never knew if I was going to be pushing a great lump of metal home.

It got through so many twist grip throttles I kept my own stock of spares. The control unit was made of moulded chewing gum and had to be replaced more than once. Front wiring harness to motor was replaced. Fuses often went, I carried a stock of replacements. Finally the ignition switch failed in the 'on' position so the only way I could switch off was by removing two tons of battery.

I had new batteries fitted by an East Angian dealer and on the first outing the electrics went totally dead. In desperation I dismantled the battery case myself and found the spade connectors so loose they simply fell off - a really crap bit of work on the dealer's part who should have tightened them with a slight pinch from a pair of pliers. Oh and half the battery case screws had not been replaced.

Yes it would climb hills and you always had a handful of the 24 gears in hand. But let us not get carried away by the Powabyke. It was a heavy liability.

Rod

 

[HarryB]

Frank tells me that the X24 will retail at £895. This is the version closest to the Cytronex Trek. I agree that it is still relatively cheap for a retail supported e-bike though.

Phil

I would save money and go for the 6 speed as an electric bike really doesn't need that many gears - will do if it runs out of battery though. At £900 it is getting too close to the Cytronex which I suspect is a much better bike.

 

[flecc]

Certainly they weren't completely fault free Rod, but your experience does seem a bit exceptional. We've had a number in here reporting very much better experience over time, plus others in the magazines, and if they'd all been that bad the company wouldn't have lasted for longer than most in this business.

For sure they were heavy and a bit crude and unsophisticated, but it was the motor I was discussing and that was very reliable.
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[Phil the drill]

I can't agree that Powabykes worked reliably. I had one from new for four years and in the end gave it up, partly through the sheer weight and partly because whenever I went out on it I never knew if I was going to be pushing a great lump of metal home.


Rod

Well Rod I can't dispute your experiences, if that happened to you then I can easily see where you're coming from. All I can say is that it was different for me.
The only time my great lump need to be carried home was after impacting it on the front of a Transit in a high speed 'bale out'. It was a write off, as you would expect, but at least being a Powabyke, the Transit didn't get away Scot free either.....

Cheers, Phil

 

[Barnowl]

The Cytronex sold direct at much lower costs started at £995 and is now going up by quite a lot.
.

Actually, I think, £945 for a month or so. I haven't yet seen any new figure mentioned. The site still shows cost as £995. Maybe I missed something.

The Trek 7.3FX 2009, can be found on the Web. It's selling for an extra 50 quid at the moment. Only part of the Cytronex cost, I know, but a pity if it goes up quite a lot.

The 2009 Trek bike itself doesn't appeared to have changed much. The only thing I noticed was a slight improvement with the graphics and possibly the seat post.

 

[Mattyduk]

Actually, I think, £945 for a month or so. I haven't yet seen any new figure mentioned. The site still shows cost as £995. Maybe I missed something.

I was looking to get a Cytronex but was told that they only had the small frame (17") in stock as the 20" both in the 7300 and fx were out of stock and wouldn't be replaced until the new year with the new model.

I can understand a company updating it's models but to run out of stock for 3 months when the credit crunch is hitting seems a bit odd

 

[the_killjoy]

I am not sure the credit crunch helps, I know you can often make a case for a long term saving, but they are not inexpensive pieces of kit for most people.

 

[Barnowl]

I was looking to get a Cytronex but was told that they only had the small frame (17") in stock as the 20" both in the 7300 and fx were out of stock and wouldn't be replaced until the new year with the new model.

I can understand a company updating it's models but to run out of stock for 3 months when the credit crunch is hitting seems a bit odd

Yeah it is odd. I notice the batteries are still showing unavailable on the web site so maybe there's an issue there. Maybe they've all gone on their hols. Always worth an email to Mark check on the latest situation if you're interested.

I've had mine 4 weeks now and still very happy with it. Interested in this thread though because the Powabyke with a battery bottle was a new, soon to come out, bike offered to me when I tried to get a Cytronex on the Halfords scheme last June. My sheme closed in August so it could never have been done.

Begged the hypothetical question would I have saved the money and got the Powabyke X or splashed out on the tax etc and got the Cyrtonex. Water under the bridge now and very happy with Cytronex.
It all depends on your reasons for buying and what you want to get out of it. Is it a cost cutting exercise? For fitness? environmental concerns, commuting improvements or something cool to spend some disposable income on. For me it was mix of all these and also I wanted something that looked like and behaved like a normal bike so it didn't attract negative attention on the office car park. The happier you are with the purchase the more you'll use it. For me that brings the real cost of ownership down.