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Woosh

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The emails were verified by some of the other recipients.
If HB said they were inserts then only one side is telling the truth. It is difficult to see why the maga republicans in Congress would still sit on this and not impeach JB already.
 

saneagle

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Don't know an awful lot about it but I thought that was the most likely cause ?

eta - this was the first scientific article that popped up when I googled covid lab leak vs zoonosis

When you have billions of dollars at your disposal, you can get loads of people to write what you want. The virus had a non natural sequence in it. This from The National Library of Medicine Aug 2021. Note that they mentioned data being withheld. Why would that be?

"We note in closing that no definitive conclusions regarding the origins of COVID-19 are possible without a full disclosure of all relevant data. Given the worldwide impact of the virus, full data disclosure is a scientific imperative. These data require an unbiased evaluation without preconceived notions. At this juncture, the discovery of the ‘double CGG’ sequence is consistent with unnatural origin, and must be thoroughly evaluated if we are to ever determine the definitive source of COVID-19. Given the available data, a laboratory escape scenario cannot be excluded."
 
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Peter.Bridge

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When you have billions of dollars at your disposal, you can get loads of people to write what you want. The virus had a non natural sequence in it. This from The National Library of Medicine Aug 2021. Note that they mentioned data being withheld. Why would that be?

"We note in closing that no definitive conclusions regarding the origins of COVID-19 are possible without a full disclosure of all relevant data. Given the worldwide impact of the virus, full data disclosure is a scientific imperative. These data require an unbiased evaluation without preconceived notions. At this juncture, the discovery of the ‘double CGG’ sequence is consistent with unnatural origin, and must be thoroughly evaluated if we are to ever determine the definitive source of COVID-19. Given the available data, a laboratory escape scenario cannot be excluded."
Well that is pretty early on , I guess that there has been a lot more research into it since then but I still think "a laboratory escape scenario cannot be excluded" even if it less likely than a zoonotic explanation.
The last bit of evidence I can find is from March last year which suggested raccoon dogs in the market were infected with the virus. This adds to the evidence of a natural spillover event

 
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sjpt

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If HB said they were inserts then only one side is telling the truth.
There are 4 permutations; I guess the most likely is that neither side is telling the truth.
 

saneagle

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Well that is pretty early on , I guess that there has been a lot more research into it since then but I still think "a laboratory escape scenario cannot be excluded" even if it less likely than a zoonotic explanation.
The last bit of evidence I can find is from March last year which suggested raccoon dogs in the market were infected with the virus. This adds to the evidence of a natural spillover event

Did you know that The World Military Games were held in Wuhan in autumn 2019 right next to the lab and market? Coincidence? If I wanted to release a virus on the world and I had been sponsoring the Wuhan lab to change human viruses, I'd be pretty pleased to get the opportunity to release the virus in that vicinity. Start by trying to convince everybody that it was natural, then, when that gets debunked, blame the lab, and everybody starts to hate the Chinese, who are your enemies. Heads I win, tails you lose!
 
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Woosh

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There are 4 permutations; I guess the most likely is that neither side is telling the truth.
We will know soon enough. HB would make more money suing fox than he hss made from burisma and would have as a lawyer.
 
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Anybody who is not aware that the cause of the one and a bit degree rise in mean global temperature is due to the adding of two and a half trillion tonnes of carbon to the atmosphere, must have not been paying attention.

Whether it is an existential problem is another matter altogether.
 

Peter.Bridge

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Did you know that The World Military Games were held in Wuhan in autumn 2019 right next to the lab and market? Coincidence? If I wanted to release a virus on the world and I had been sponsoring the Wuhan lab to change human viruses, I'd be pretty pleased to get the opportunity to release the virus in that vicinity. Start by trying to convince everybody that it was natural, then, when that gets debunked, blame the lab, and everybody starts to hate the Chinese, who are your enemies. Heads I win, tails you lose!
The 2019 World Stamp Exhibition was held in Summer of 2019 in the Wuhan International Expo Centre - just think of all the saliva being transferred around
 
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saneagle

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Anybody who is not aware that the cause of the one and a bit degree rise in mean global temperature is due to the adding of two and a half trillion tonnes of carbon to the atmosphere, must have not been paying attention.

Whether it is an existential problem is another matter altogether.
You forgot about the trillions of tons of CO2 that the plants and planktons take out of the atmosphere. The CO2 is like their throttle. The amount restricts their growth. When God made the planet, he had it all figured out ahead of us. The more CO2 we try to put in the atmosphere, the faster the plants grow to take it all out again. We will never win that race.
 

Peter.Bridge

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Read 'Viral, by Dr Alina Chan and Matt Ridley. Great book. Worth every penny.
This one ? (this was the first two reviews I came across, but still might be interesting)
 
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D

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You forgot about the trillions of tons of CO2 that the plants and planktons take out of the atmosphere. The CO2 is like their throttle. The amount restricts their growth. When God made the planet, he had it all figured out ahead of us. The more CO2 we try to put in the atmosphere, the faster the plants grow to take it all out again. We will never win that race.

Yes. All true. What you forgot is that at the beginning of the 20th Century, the armosphere contained 250 parts per million of co2, wheras now it contains 410 parts per million of co2. These facts are true in spite of the good work of plants, forests and ocean plankton. It could hardly be otherwise while China, india, russia and the USA are burning carbon as fast as they can.

I am not of the Chicken Licken tendency. I dont think the Sky is YET falling on my head, but, i do think the big polluters need to find other ways of getting energy.
 
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D

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This one ? (this was the first two reviews I came across, but still might be interesting)
This one ? (this was the first two reviews I came across, but still might be interesting)
Sorry, i messed up on the title. I am on my phone and not my laptop. Virtual keyboard is a pain. I edited the original post to correct.

My review is that it is one of the best books on the subject. She really knows her virology. My summary is that the virus definately escaped from one of the two Wuhan labs in the latter part of 2019. They were certainly doing gain of function on bat viruses there. That means they were selecting successive strains to find a virus that could efficiently infect human lung tissue. They took a non infective bat virus as far as people were concerned. and enabled it to infect people. Then it escaped, probably by infecting a lab worker.

They were not trying to let it out. It wrecked their own society. It just got out accidentally.
 
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saneagle

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Yes. All true. What you forgot is that at the beginning of the 20th Century, the armosphere contained 250 parts per million of co2, wheras now it contains 410 parts per million of co2. These facts are true in spite of the good work of plants, forests and ocean plankton. It could hardly be otherwise while China, india, russia and the USA are burning carbon as fast as they can.

I am not of the Chicken Licken tendency. I dont think the Sky is YET falling on my head, but, i do think the big polluters need to find other ways of getting energy.
What you say is logical. It's based on the charts being true. Neither you nor I measured the CO2 1000 years ago and again today with the same equipment and the same method.

The way I see it is why would the Western world leaders support burning down every tree and forest in Ukraine and sending millions of tons of explosives there to release all their CO2 into the atmosphere, and likewise to Israel, if they were worried about the amount of CO2 in the air, and why would Xi Xing Ping be building a new coal-fired power plant every week. Surely, the Chinese have a lot of very clever people there, who should be able to figure all this out?
 
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All these people bleating about climate change are still driving around in their cars and flying around to foreign holidays and other things. That's how you know it's a scam. If they knew it to be true, they'd be the first to change.
This one is pretty funny - but as you all know, I'm supposed to be a racist....


He isn't by any means alone. While it might (speciously) be argued that it is important for politicians to attend climate conferences, I am not sure the hordes of actors doing so is at all legitimate. De Caprio, Emma Thompson and many others are fond of jetting half way around the world to be seen at them.
 
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HB claims that his laptop was doctored. We'll have to wait for testimonies in court. That's the only way to sort out the lies and spins.
I have no time for Biden - he is obviously senile and only his vanity has him on the ticket this time.
It is a constant puzzle to me how the USA is offered such atrocious leadership, time after time.

But who cares what is on Hunter Biden's laptop? Is Diane Abbott unfit for office because her son bit a policeman? Or is she fit or unfit because of her own actions?

Mind, on that criterion, half the House of Commons should resign. Some of the actual behaviour of a ridiculous number of our own politicians is utterly revolting. I don't need to list them. You all know who they are and what they have done.
 

Peter.Bridge

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What you say is logical. It's based on the charts being true. Neither you nor I measured the CO2 1000 years ago and again today with the same equipment and the same method.
This is the record from the Mauna Loa Observatory that opened in 1958

57656

why would Xi Xing Ping be building a new coal-fired power plant every week. Surely, the Chinese have a lot of very clever people there, who should be able to figure all this out?
But this still seems consistent with his pledge for China emissions to peak before 2030 (some analysts say this has already happened) and be carbon neutral by 2060. They are also building a huge amount of renewables power plants, China has no gas power plants (which are used in the west for "standby" and when renewables are not generating)

 
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