Prices of the electricity we use to charge

[Ghost1951]

That's a load of ball cox and you know it. You just don't like it that Trump found a simple solution and got all parties to agree.

Well - that's a good argument. I think you have me in a corner there. I give in to your eloquent reasoning.

 

[Ghost1951]

I is interesting how different AI machines react to teh same question on this subject.

I asked Google Gemini, ChatGPT and Deepseek the same question:

"What is your view of Trump's new Gaza policy, of deporting the population and creating a Riviera in the Levant?"

The Google declined to answer and pretty much reacted exactly teh way that Deepseek does if you ask about things the Chinese government doesn't like. It said that it wasn't trained to answer things like that and basically just shut down.

It said:

Google Search[/URL].

ChatGPT engaged in the issue and gave a critical account of the controversy surrounding it. It is obviously fully up to date on current affairs. Its answer is here:

ChatGPT - Trump Gaza Policy Criticism

Shared via ChatGPT

chatgpt.com

Surprisingly, although Deepseek was trained in 2024 and does not know that Trump has started this controversy, it discussed the ethical and political issues surrounding such an idea in a pretty thorough way.

So - Google copped out. ChatGPT knew about it and the outrage expressed around the world and Deepseek engaged in the discussion pointing out the issues coming from sucha proposal.

The idea of deporting the population of Gaza and creating a "Riviera in the Levant" is not an official policy of the Trump administration or any U.S. government. Such a proposal would be highly controversial and likely face significant legal, ethical, and geopolitical challenges.

1. *Legal and Ethical Concerns*: Forced deportation of a population is considered a violation of international law, including the Geneva Conventions, which protect civilians in conflict zones. It would also raise serious human rights concerns.

2. *Geopolitical Implications*: The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of the most complex and sensitive issues in international relations. Any proposal to alter the demographic or geographic landscape of the region would likely face strong opposition from the international community, including key U.S. allies and regional actors.

3. *Historical Context*: The idea of creating a "Riviera" in the Levant is reminiscent of historical colonial projects that sought to reshape regions for economic or strategic purposes. Such proposals often ignore the rights and aspirations of the local population and can lead to long-term instability.

4. *U.S. Policy*: U.S. policy in the region has traditionally focused on a two-state solution, aiming to create a peaceful coexistence between Israel and a future Palestinian state. While the Trump administration has taken a different approach, including recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital and brokering the Abraham Accords, it has not officially proposed anything akin to the deportation of Gazans or the creation of a "Riviera."

In summary, while the idea you mentioned is not an official policy, it is important to consider the legal, ethical, and geopolitical ramifications of any proposal that seeks to significantly alter the status quo in such a volatile region.

 

[Ghost1951]

I is interesting how different AI machines react to teh same question on this subject.

I asked Google Gemini, ChatGPT and Deepseek the same question:

"What is your view of Trump's new Gaza policy, of deporting the population and creating a Riviera in the Levant?"

The Google declined to answer and pretty much reacted exactly teh way that Deepseek does if you ask about things the Chinese government doesn't like. It said that it wasn't trained to answer things like that and basically just shut down.

ChatGPT engaged in the issue and gave a critical account of the controversy surrounding it. It is obviously fully up to date on current affairs. Its answer is here:

ChatGPT - Trump Gaza Policy Criticism

Shared via ChatGPT

chatgpt.com

Surprisingly, although Deepseek was trained in 2024 and does not know that Trump has started this controversy, it discussed the ethical and political issues surrounding such an idea in a pretty thorough way.

So - Google copped out. ChatGPT knew about it and the outrage expressed around the world and Deepseek engaged in the discussion pointing out the issues coming from sucha proposal.

I don't think Deepseek would answer a question about the status of Tibet in the same open manner...

But I was rather surprised that Googles Gemini balked at the idea of entering into discussion of the President's proposal. Maybe Google are running scared and like Facebook are worried about the lunatic in the White House. If I am not mistaken, Facebook paid damages to Trump for banning him from their platform after he tried to subvert the election.

 

[Woosh]

Again you make the 'appeal to authority fallacy and the 'appeal to irrelevant authority' which is worse, when you mis-applying one kind of problem solving activity to an entirely different arena.

You also exemplify another logical fallacy, describing my discussion as 'ethereal. thinking'. This is a classic example of the 'Plain Truth Fallacy.

I think the most dangerous and destructive of them is the way you make a virtue out of closing down the input of information by denouncing all sources of information which are not a closed cess pool of fake news and Trumpian MAGA extremism. You habitually refuse to access links from sources that are incompatible with your established view.

In an intelligent person, this is a tragedy. The most useful and valuable thing I ever learned was to question all ideas - especially the ones I felt drawn to. We often - all of us seek confirmation bias - that is searching out the evidence and arguments that appeal to us. Sensible people are aware of that and re-examine what they believe. Others shut down the input of information if they don't like the look of it or think that it comes from a source where the material comes from people who disagree with them.

Our democratic system with its checks and balances has created many contradictions and does not work adequately for a lot of people like SW. They ended believing that any change is better than more of the same. If it turns out like I guess trump is worse then I expect we'll get our old systems back.

If I am not mistaken, Facebook paid damages to Trump for banning him from their platform after he tried to subvert the election.

ABC, CNN, etc all setteld out of court with large donnations to the future 'Trump Library' and plaintiffs' legal fees.

 

[saneagle]

I don't think Deepseek would answer a question about the status of Tibet in the same open manner...

But I was rather surprised that Googles Gemini balked at the idea of entering into discussion of the President's proposal. Maybe Google are running scared and like Facebook are worried about the lunatic in the White House. If I am not mistaken, Facebook paid damages to Trump for banning him from their platform after he tried to subvert the election.

You used the same technique as the BBC by asking a loaded question. Did trump say he was going to deport the people of Gaza or help them with relocation? will the relocation be voluntary or mandatory? Did he say the relocation was permanent or temporary? Did the leaders of Gaza agree to that or not? When you find the answers to those questions, you'll realise why you're talking shite.

 

[lenny]

 

[lenny]

Log in to Facebook

Log in to Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family and people you know.

www.facebook.com

 

[Woosh]

You used the same technique as the BBC by asking a loaded question. Did trump say he was going to deport the people of Gaza or help them with relocation? will the relocation be voluntary or mandatory? Did he say the relocation was permanent or temporary? Did the leaders of Gaza agree to that or not? When you find the answers to those questions, you'll realise why you're talking shite.

Trump has said he is asking Egypt and Jordan to take up the 2 millions gazans. You could call it relocation or deportation or ethnic cleansing, the end result is still the same. Expropriation. Rebuild. Sales. Profits will go to selected commercial builders. There are still plenty of Palestinians who still have keys of their old homes that were taken from them by similar mechanism.

 

[lenny]

Global Temperatures Shattered Records in January
Earth’s prolonged streak of abnormal heat continued into 2025 despite the arrival of La Niña ocean conditions, which typically bring cooler temperatures.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/05/climate/earth-hottest-january.html

 

[Ghost1951]

You used the same technique as the BBC by asking a loaded question. Did trump say he was going to deport the people of Gaza or help them with relocation? will the relocation be voluntary or mandatory? Did he say the relocation was permanent or temporary? Did the leaders of Gaza agree to that or not? When you find the answers to those questions, you'll realise why you're talking shite.

Trump's own words:

"You're talking about probably a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing".

In speaking of a phone call to King Abdulah:
“I said to him that I’d love you to take on more, because I’m looking at the whole Gaza Strip right now and it’s a mess, it’s a real mess."

“You’re talking about a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing.”

“I don’t know, something has to happen, but it’s literally a demolition site right now. Almost everything’s demolished, and people are dying there, so I’d rather get involved with some of the Arab nations and build housing in a different location where I think they could maybe live in peace for a change.”

"We're going to develop it, create thousands and thousands of jobs, and it'll be something that the entire Middle East can be very proud of."

"The Riviera of the Middle East."

"I don't think people should be going back to Gaza,"

In a discussion about resettlememnt in Jordan and Egypt, he said:

"I heard that Gaza has been very unlucky for them. They live like hell. They live like they're living in hell. Gaza is not a place for people to be living, and the only reason they want to go back, and I believe this strongly, is because they have no alternative."

 

[lenny]

 

[saneagle]

Did anybody know about this? It's an interesting story that hasn't ended yet:
Bike Boy Scandal

 

[Ghost1951]

You'd have to wonder why this matter has come up again more than a decade after the event.

Kid on bike slams into car while exiting a track onto a road. Four minutes after (i don't know how anyone exactly knows exactly when impact occurred) car passenger says to emergency service, ' send help - we hit a kid'. Car has damage to right wing and windscreen, consistent with a careless kid flying into the road from a side track. Kid says now they ran into him.

BOL LOX. NOBODY has right of way when exiting a track into a road. The term 'we hit a kid', said to emergency service call handler, does not mean they were negligent or at fault - ESPECIALLY WHEN HE CAME OUT OF A TRACK INTO THE ROAD.

This conspiracy nonsense is a croc of you know what. Ryan caused the accident. His father is NOT the victim. Send your money down the toilet if you like to assist these people. They WILL lose.

 

[saneagle]

You'd have to wonder why this matter has come up again more than a decade after the event.

Kid on bike slams into car while exiting a track onto a road. Four minutes after (i don't know how anyone exactly knows exactly when impact occurred) car passenger says to emergency service, ' send help - we hit a kid'. Car has damage to right wing and windscreen, consistent with a careless kid flying into the road from a side track. Kid says now they ran into him.

BOL LOX. NOBODY has right of way when exiting a track into a road. The term 'we hit a kid', said to emergency service call handler, does not mean they were negligent or at fault - ESPECIALLY WHEN HE CAME OUT OF A TRACK INTO THE ROAD.

This conspiracy nonsense is a croc of you know what. Ryan caused the accident. His father is NOT the victim. Send your money down the toilet if you like to assist these people. They WILL lose.

The car had damage to the front.

 

[Ghost1951]

The car had damage to the front.

Yeah? So what?

If you are driving down the road in perfect compliance with good driving behaviour, and some teen aged kid flies out of a side track, right in front of you, is it your fault if there is damage to your car's front on the side he exited the track?

You can not stop on a sixpence when negligent teen bursts out in front of you. By any reading, RYAN caused the accident. It is not 'defamation' to say so when gold digging father, Meulman, drags this matter out of the archives, and brings an action that he wants all of us to fund.

 

[saneagle]

Yeah? So what?

If you are driving down the road in perfect compliance with good driving behaviour, and some teen aged kid flies out of a side track, right in front of you, is it your fault if there is damage to your car's front on the side he exited the track?

You can not stop on a sixpence when negligent teen bursts out in front of you. By any reading, RYAN caused the accident. It is not 'defamation' to say so when gold digging father, Meulman, drags this matter out of the archives, and brings an action that he wants all of us to fund.

Both you and Woosh are letting your preconceptions control your thought processes.

 

[saneagle]

His own words:

"The US will take over and rebuild Gaza after the Palestinians have been re-settled elsewhere."

"I don't want to be a wiseguy but this could be the Riviera of the Middle East. This could be so magnificent. The US will take over the Gaza Strip. And we will do a job with it too. We will own it, and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous un-exploded bombs and other weapons on the site, level the site and get rid of all the destroyed buildings, level it out and create an economic development that will supply unlimited numbers of jobs and housing for the people of the area."

Trump said earlier he would permanently re-settle Palestinians in countries like Jordan and Egypt and other Arab states. These countries have not been consulted and have not agreed to such a plan.

He is a megalomaniac fascist in the mold of those we mentioned earlier.

While I utterly despise and loathe organisations like Hamas and all those Islamist fanatics, the talk of deportation and final solution is not new and we know where it came from and what it led to. He is doing the same thing in America with illegal migrants, talking of millions of deportations and super mega camps.

The fascist undertones are explicit. They are no longer undertones, but final solution policies evolving in his head and overtly spoken. Whether the United States checks and balances will allow him to execute them is another matter.

Of course he finds the checks and balances of democratic government a problem. They are described with loathing as 'the deep state', as if they were a sinister impediment, rather than the sinews and bones of the very democracy of the USA.

View attachment 62005

This might help your understanding of what it's all about:
Gazans relocation will be TEMPORARY; USA will take over Gaza & not give to.... ; No troop deployment

 

[Woosh]

Both you and Woosh are letting your preconceptions control your thought processes.

What preconception? I thought Tony1951 is right.

 

[Woosh]

This might help your understanding of what it's all about:
Gazans relocation will be TEMPORARY; USA will take over Gaza & not give to.... ; No troop deployment

What if it takes 20 years to rebuild Gaza?

 

[Ghost1951]

This might help your understanding of what it's all about:
Gazans relocation will be TEMPORARY; USA will take over Gaza & not give to.... ; No troop deployment

Well - I did watch ALL of it, in spite of the man's unintelligible English. It's really coming to something when in order to explain what Trump is thinking, we have to watch a 16 minute video, in which a man who speaks English so very badly, explains what Trump meant.

Of course, Trump's announcements and hasty remarks so often require a frenzied effort behind the scenes to come out and revise what he actually said. We should be used to that by now.

So now - his words we are told, don't mean what he said, and he is planning to invest hundreds of billions turning Gaza into a wonderful paradise and then he will let the Gazans all come home again from Jordan and Egypt and they will all get a wonderful job in the Riviera of the Middle East and live in peace and harmony.....

LOL - I don't think so. Call me an old cynic. They won't be coming home.

Now - before I say what I am going to say about the longer term issues of the defining problem of the Middle East - I want to say again, that I loathe and detest the Islamist extremists and killers of Hamas, Hezbollah, The Iranian leadership and their extremist Revolutionary Guard and its enabling cadres.

The slaughter of innocent Israelis two years ago on that February murder fest was beyond savage wickedness. Nothing I say next can be thought to support such people and their depravity. I'd happily see every one of that sort rotting in the sun.

That said - anyone who believes the Israeli government would ever allow ANY of the deported people back probably also believes in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

Right from May 1948, Israel has been bent on expelling Palestinians and depriving those within their control of normal civil rights and property.

I don't think the problem of establishing an Israeli State (14th May 1948) was ever going to be a simple matter, because the land covered by the Palestinian Mandate - known then as Palestine, was populated throughout by Arabs and Jews - so quite how it would be possible to create a Jewish Homeland in a multi cultural territory, and do so peacefully with everybody happy, one can not imagine.

Originally the British run Mandate was set on dividing the land so that 51% went to the Jews and 49% went to the Arabs. Not surprisingly, the Palestinian Arabs did not and could not agree to this. Why should they? Farmers who owned land; families who owned houses in towns and villages were to be moved against their will, from ancestral property.

It was inevitably going to cause a disaster. Especially since at the time, Jews made up only about one-third of the population and owned less than 7% of the land.

But it gets worse. When the British Mandate gave way to UN control (strongly steered by the Americans) the land distribution plan changed dramatically. The plan was implemented before the Arab state could be established. The new state of Israel covered 78% of Palestine, with the remaining 22% falling under the control of Jordan and Egypt. This in a landscape of which only 7% was owned by Jews.

Since that time, Israel has after several wars occupied the entire area or blockaded it.

Extremist Jewish settlers live all over the so called West Bank and continually harass Arab villagers and take over more and more land. Gaza is a prison camp with 2 million prisoners.

There is NO WAY Israel would ever allow deported Palestinians to return to any area they have annexed.

There is more than one kind of extremist in that region. The real problem is to find those who are NOT extremists be they Jews or Arabs.

This is an insoluble problem.

Jewish Settlements, walls and fences in Arab West Bank