Prices of the electricity we use to charge

[Ghost1951]

Why do people consider tariff barriers?

China's electric cars are cheaper, but is there a deeper cost?

The future for EVs will inevitably involve China. But where does that leave the UK and Europe markets – and what of the questions around national security?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[lenny]

Mussolini, Hitler

 

[Ghost1951]

Of course I can since it is entirely logical to note how people repeat history. That is because they are not unconnected, they are connected by their unchanging human responses to repeats of stimuli.

The right wing declare populist policies so the people vote for them, giving the right a surge in popularity. We've seen it time upon time, most recently in France, Austria, The Netherlands, Germany. Going back very much further we saw it in Spain and Italy.

Fortunately their populaces have been much closer to how that led to the entirely predictable excesses of Franco, Mussolini, Hitler and his henchmen so tend to see the dangers in time to back off.

So I can reliably judge from history.



The Norwegian government have wisely taken a hard line in enforcing integration which has paid off to date. The Swedish government has been more lax by just expecting it to happen among their incredibly diverse population.

Population density and ethnic roots have little to do with integration though. London outclasses both those countries in terms of population density and diversity, yet is by far the best integrated part of the UK and I would claim better than the Scandinavian countries in those respects, not needing to enforce integration.
.

It is RIDICULOUS to assert that enacting popular policies which benefit your people and enhance their lives and freedoms automatically leads to extremism and harmful impacts as you are doing.

The extremism of certain historical regimes and periods in history can not be associated with enacting policies popular with the people. To suggest it is frankly mad.

What is more, trying to assert cause and effect relationships in the way you have done is plain stupid. The complexity of the outcomes of historical periods and events is multi faceted, so no such simple cause and effect relationship, such as 'right means bad', could ever be established.

The extremist regimes that I think you are referring to were basically, true fascist regimes of the mid twentieth century, and they all had certain features in common. They were in every case, violent from the very start. From 1933, when the German Nazi Party first gained power, they introduced violent thuggery to dispose of and discourage opposition. Within a matter of months The Nazi Party had set up a violent, volunteer militia which soon numbered 4 million individuals. These people went about the streets attacking Jews, homosexuals, communists and trade unionists, and anyone who publicly espoused other ideas than those approved of by the Nazis. They seized property, destroyed property and they murdered thousands of people. Nazism was extreme and violent from the very start.

Mussolini and the Italian fascists were the same. They also had rampaging militias which went about repressing dissent through violence and intimidation. This has NOTHING to do with the democratic right, here or in Europe. You are MAD to suggest that it has.

Now - as I have said - I am not a fan of Farage and I have not voted for his party, but he is a democratic politician. His main reason for opposition to our membership of the EU was its lack of democratic accountability. He will win votes and is winning votes in this democracy, because his policies appeal to people who KNOW they have been disparaged and ignored by the traditional parties.

There is NOTHING nazi about being aware of, and concerned about the continual importation of very cheap labour which badly affects the lives and prospects of those already here who have to compete with migrant labour brought in really just to enable low wages and bad conditions.

I am ashamed to say that Sunac's government which I voted for did exactly that. Rather than raise the pay of care workers and improve their frankly deplorable conditions, he simply issued 180,000 visas in a single year to bring in cheap keen, foreign people to do that work for a pittance with conditions that no one should be expected to accept.

Neither is it racist to suggest that large numbers of people who have not integrated into the mainstream of society and operate parallel lives to the rest of us is a problem.

YOU may be very happy in London that this has not happened - I suggest that you may be deluding yourself about the multi cultural London paradise - the numbers of stabbings and robberies and murders there might work against the concept of Shangrl La on Thames, but leave that aside, IN MANY PARTS OF THIS COUNTRY integration has not happened. Politicians having drunk the multicultural Koolaid, have ignored the fact that large numbers of the population have poor command of English, do not use it at home, have little contact or desire for contact with British people and institutions. This is a disaster and will lead and has led to serious problems for our society.

Years ago, my then wife was a senior teacher in a large comprehensive school with a substantial south Asian cohort of girls (it was a girls school) tried to establish after school English lessons for mothers of these girls many of whom spoke no English and were difficult to get to come to school to talk about the progress of their children. She was met with an almost complete stone wall. They would not come. Many when asked said they were not allowed to do things like that. I remember her trying very hard to get a clever Bangladeshi girl to go to university. She went as far as arranging an interview at Edinburgh with the girl. On the day she was meant to travel, she failed to turn up and her father had banned her from going. We can not have this kind of life crushing backwardness ruining lives.

 

[Ghost1951]

Of course it is extreme right proposed by Reform and NR. It's just populist law, which when implemented effectively results in fascist behaviour.

That is how meanings change dynamically, you've even done it yourself in your post.

You opened by questioning the use of "Far Right", but closed by saying "Hard Right", very revealing.
.

I could have saved myself half an hour and just asked Google AI to write the answer.

I asked the question: "Is it rational to equate modern right of centre political parties with the fascism of the early to mid twentieth century?'

ANSWER:

"It is not rational to directly equate modern, democratic right-of-center parties with the fascist parties of 20th-century Italy and Germany. While some similarities exist, particularly in the use of nationalist rhetoric and appeals to order, the fundamental differences in their ideologies, goals, and methods of governance render the association largely inaccurate.

Key Differences:

• Authoritarianism vs. Democracy:
  Fascist regimes were authoritarian, dictatorial, and anti-democratic, while modern right-of-center parties operate within democratic frameworks, respect civil liberties, and adhere to democratic principles.
• Use of Violence:
  Fascist parties often employed violence and intimidation to suppress opposition and consolidate power, while modern right-of-center parties typically avoid such tactics and adhere to democratic norms.
• Ideology and Goals:
  Fascism was based on extreme nationalism, militarism, and a rejection of liberal democracy and individual rights. Modern right-of-center parties may share some elements of nationalism or conservatism, but they generally uphold democratic values and respect individual freedoms.
• Social and Economic Policies:
  Fascism often involved a corporatist economy and a focus on state control and intervention. Modern right-of-center parties may advocate for free markets and limited government intervention, but they generally do not embrace the same level of state control as fascism.

Why the Comparison is Sometimes Drawn:

• Use of Nationalism:
  Some commentators point to the use of nationalism and appeals to national identity as a common ground between modern right-wing movements and fascism. However, the level and intensity of nationalism, as well as its connection to other ideologies, vary significantly.
  
  
• Fear and Anxiety:
  Fascist regimes often exploited existing fears and anxieties about economic instability, social unrest, and the threat of communism. While modern right-of-center parties may also appeal to these concerns, their approaches to addressing them are typically more nuanced and less reliant on demagoguery.
  
  
• Anti-Establishment Rhetoric:
  Some modern right-of-center parties employ anti-establishment rhetoric, similar to what was seen in the rise of fascism. However, this is often distinct from the outright rejection of democracy and the establishment of a totalitarian regime.

In Conclusion:
While some superficial similarities may exist, it is crucial to distinguish between modern, democratic right-of-center parties and the fascist movements of the 20th century. The fundamental differences in ideology, governance, and objectives make the comparison largely inaccurate. "

 

[flecc]

IN MANY PARTS OF THIS COUNTRY integration has not happened. Politicians having drunk the multicultural Koolaid, have ignored the fact that large numbers of the population have poor command of English, do not use it at home, have little contact or desire for contact with British people and institutions. This is a disaster and will lead and has led to serious problems for our society.

I'm not any way deluded and am well aware that integration hasn't happened elswhere to anything like the degree it has here, precisely the point I was making. It takes time, but generation by generation it does happen and the language barrier disappears.

Living long enough and mostly in London, I KNOW it does through seeing it across generations in families. Meanwhile there is no disaster or serious problems waiting to happen.

What you post on this subject really does make you seem like a reincarnation of Enoch Powell, someone whose ultimately foolish lack of foresight you'd no doubt have admired at the time.

I just hope you live long enough to see how self correcting your imagined problems will be over time.
.

 

[AndyBike]

Sign from a holocaust museum wall.
I guess these folk know the difference and what things to look out for


We could go through them one at a time

"powerful and continual nationalism"
Yup thats the Reform/GB news etc Bring back sovereignty yeah

"Distain for human rights"
It's this their current goal ? To leave the HCHR

"Identification of enemies as a unifying cause"
It's them immigrants/disabled/unemployed/unwed mothers/the yoof of today.. innit

We could carry on, much in the same vein, and match up all of the above examples to policy or interests in reform, and the people who are voting for and supporting them.

 

[Woosh]

That said, and you know my view of Trump, There is a case for barriers against China. It manipulates its currency to make its products artificially cheap and runs very out of balance trade in imported goods.

that is only partially true.
Do you know the criteria of a currency manipulator according to US Treasury?
1. Trade surplus with the USA of at least $15 billion a year
2. Current account surplus of at least 3% of GDP a year
3. Buying foreign currency (USD) and sell your own of at least 2% of GDP a year

As no country qualifies for at least 2 out of those 3 criteria for a while, Trump added 9 countries to the list anyway so he can call them currency manipulators.
They are: China, Germany, Ireland, Japan, South Korea, Singapore. Switzerland, Taiwan and Vietnam.

To be fair, large Chinese businesses do setup manufacturing operations abroad so China should fit the first criterion but not 2 and 3.
We all like to have balanced trade but unfortunately, we don't like the kind of factory repetitive work so who is going to do it? If you were PM, would you force the one million NEET to take up those jobs?

 

[lenny]

 

[lenny]

 

[lenny]

 

[lenny]

 

[Ghost1951]

I'm not any way deluded and am well aware that integration hasn't happened elswhere to anything like the degree it has here, precisely the point I was making. It takes time, but generation by generation it does happen and the language barrier disappears.

Living long enough and mostly in London, I KNOW it does through seeing it across generations in families. Meanwhile there is no disaster or serious problems waiting to happen.

What you post on this subject really does make you seem like a reincarnation of Enoch Powell, someone whose ultimately foolish lack of foresight you'd no doubt have admired at the time.

I just hope you live long enough to see how self correcting your imagined problems will be over time.
.

Sign from a holocaust museum wall.
I guess these folk know the difference and what things to look out for

View attachment 63460
We could go through them one at a time

"powerful and continual nationalism"
Yup thats the Reform/GB news etc Bring back sovereignty yeah

"Distain for human rights"
It's this their current goal ? To leave the HCHR

"Identification of enemies as a unifying cause"
It's them immigrants/disabled/unemployed/unwed mothers/the yoof of today.. innit

We could carry on, much in the same vein, and match up all of the above examples to policy or interests in reform, and the people who are voting for and supporting them.

Ok -

I'm not going to continue interacting with such insolent stupidity an longer.

You don't want to hear what I have to say and respond with insult, then as my last contribution, read this below.

I know Gordon Sumner. He was my brother's friend. They both played in the Newcastle Big Band in the very early 1970s and both became professional musicians. My brother played trumpet, Gordon or 'Sting' as you know him, played a base guitar and sang. We thought he was very good. We were right. My brother went to Gordon's wedding a few years ago. I can't remember where it was right now, but it was abroad and rather posh.

I have tried to explain why people vote for a party which hears their plight and promises to do something about it, unlike the rest. Maybe it will fail like they did - maybe not.

Here - read this -

Sting: Governments have neglected the North East for decades

The musician is says he is donating an undisclosed amount to the Baltic Centre for Contemporary Art.

www.bbc.co.uk

"Sting is in a reflective mood. The Grammy-Award-winning singer-songwriter grew up in Wallsend near Newcastle-upon-Tyne and tells me he is "very proud" of his Tyneside roots.

But the musician is less complimentary about the way the North East of England has been, as he puts it, "wilfully neglected by successive governments for decades"."



<Edited and snipped - see link for full article>

In 2022, he also made a reported $300m (£222m), selling his back catalogue to Universal Music Group.

The years haven't been as kind to the region where he was raised and where a third of babies, children and young people grow up in poverty, according to recent data from the End Child Poverty Coalition.

When Sting was born Gordon Sumner in 1951, the son of a milkman and a hairdresser, the North East still had a proud tradition of shipbuilding. He's previously said that his earliest memory was "a massive ship at the end of my street, towering over the houses and blotting out the sun".

But after the decline of that industry, Sting - the yellow and black sweater he wore while performing in a jazz band as a teenager earned him the nickname and it stuck - tells me, despite "all the empty promises of 'levelling up'", for years governments have disregarded the North East, "ignoring its significant historical contribution to national life, both industrial and cultural".

In response to Sting's criticisms, a government spokesman said it would "fix the crisis we have inherited".




Carry on with your insolent stupidity.

Enjoy it.

 

[Woosh]

I have tried to explain why people vote for a party which hears their plight and promises to do something about it, unlike the rest. Maybe it will fail like they did - maybe not.

We know well why people vote for populists or if they don't for sure, they can easily make good guesses. Trump is on TV most days telling us how to be a populist.

 

[lenny]

 

[flecc]

I'm not going to continue interacting with such insolent stupidity an longer.

Carry on with your insolent stupidity.

Who the hell do you think you are, referring to a different and widely held, historically supported view as insolent? I've wondered for some while whether your political views are making you deranged and with your arrogance you are beginning to provide evidence for that.

We all know the North East has suffered, just as so many other deprived areas of the UK have, but to say that is due to government neglect is wrong. Most of the deprived areas have received help, including huge UK and EU grants to establish Nissan in the North East and the eight supporting companies supplying Nissan's "just-in-time" needs. That more is needed is true, but as a failing country in today's world, there is no more that can be given.

Meanwhile, since you really do need to be reminded of the valid differences of other views, try this one from me
.

 

[AndyBike]

Ok -

I'm not going to continue interacting with such insolent stupidity an longer.

You don't want to hear what I have to say and respond with insult, then as my last contribution, read this below.

I know Gordon Sumner. He was my brother's friend. They both played in the Newcastle Big Band in the very early 1970s and both became professional musicians. My brother played trumpet, Gordon or 'Sting' as you know him, played a base guitar and sang. We thought he was very good. We were right. My brother went to Gordon's wedding a few years ago. I can't remember where it was right now, but it was abroad and rather posh.

I have tried to explain why people vote for a party which hears their plight and promises to do something about it, unlike the rest. Maybe it will fail like they did - maybe not.

Here - read this -

Sting: Governments have neglected the North East for decades

The musician is says he is donating an undisclosed amount to the Baltic Centre for Contemporary Art.

www.bbc.co.uk

"Sting is in a reflective mood. The Grammy-Award-winning singer-songwriter grew up in Wallsend near Newcastle-upon-Tyne and tells me he is "very proud" of his Tyneside roots.

But the musician is less complimentary about the way the North East of England has been, as he puts it, "wilfully neglected by successive governments for decades"."

View attachment 63462

<Edited and snipped - see link for full article>

In 2022, he also made a reported $300m (£222m), selling his back catalogue to Universal Music Group.

The years haven't been as kind to the region where he was raised and where a third of babies, children and young people grow up in poverty, according to recent data from the End Child Poverty Coalition.

When Sting was born Gordon Sumner in 1951, the son of a milkman and a hairdresser, the North East still had a proud tradition of shipbuilding. He's previously said that his earliest memory was "a massive ship at the end of my street, towering over the houses and blotting out the sun".

But after the decline of that industry, Sting - the yellow and black sweater he wore while performing in a jazz band as a teenager earned him the nickname and it stuck - tells me, despite "all the empty promises of 'levelling up'", for years governments have disregarded the North East, "ignoring its significant historical contribution to national life, both industrial and cultural".

In response to Sting's criticisms, a government spokesman said it would "fix the crisis we have inherited".




Carry on with your insolent stupidity.

Enjoy it.

I had no idea Sting was up there with the top thinkers of the day, but thanks for the little backstory.


If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck, then I think we can rest assured that it's a duck.

Why are you so afraid of the word ?

 

[MikelBikel]

Nice roundup of klimate non-sense

 

[MikelBikel]

Gov not buying leccy cars for themselves? Tut, tut..
Still, turbo V8 Range rovers are much more intimidating, and cheap when public pay for theirs, yes? Ha!

 

[lenny]

 

[lenny]