Pro-Connect 2nd range test.

[burncycle]

Hi all.
Please note my first range test posted weeks ago...........

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/2349-pro-connect-first-range-test.html

Im back with the medium setting range test, though it has produced some strange outcomes as you will see.

Conditions.
49cm Pro-Connect.
18 tooth rear sprocket modification.
Male rider (much fitter).
5ft 11inch tall.
13stone 7lbs.
Pannier with total weight of 10lbs.
Total weight 199lbs.
Bike on medium power all the way.

Fully charged to dead battery based on 4 identical commutes with a few circular laps around my home until the battery eventually died.
the max hill was a 1 in 7.

Results....

22.31miles which included 2,050.72 feet of ascent.


I am a little puzzled to why i have less range by moving from high power to medium power settings?
These could be the reasons...
1. i am much more fitter now, and therefore the power in my legs is drawing more current from the batteries up steep hills.
2. My rider style has now changed and im finding myself peddling constantly during my commute to work. I do the 5.12 mile commute now in 19mins as opposed to 23mins last month.
3. I have started to have my lights on all the time on the bike now the evenings and mornings are getting darker ( I work the night shift).

All data came from my Garmin etrex attached to the bike.
Data was then uploaded to my PC and compiled by my Fugawi mapping software.

Low (Eco) power setting range in the next few weeks.


Any comparisons?

Regards Bob.

 

[Intex]

Burncycle,
Since you are riding the bike that I am considering, I would like to ask a few questions:
1. Do the pedals freewheel, by that I mean, while the bike is moving, can you pedal the bike pedals backward?

2. If you are riding, can you stop pedalling for awhile, and have the motor take over, or will the motor cut out the moment you stop pedalling?

Thanks

 

[burncycle]

Burncycle,
Since you are riding the bike that I am considering, I would like to ask a few questions:
1. Do the pedals freewheel, by that I mean, while the bike is moving, can you pedal the bike pedals backward?

2. If you are riding, can you stop pedalling for awhile, and have the motor take over, or will the motor cut out the moment you stop pedalling?

Thanks

Answers....

1. Yes, its just like a "normal bike".
2. The motor only works when you pedal ONLY.

Hope this helps !
Bob.

 

[burncycle]

Does anyone feel that the reasons I've listed could be lowering the range then?
Feels like its falling on deaf ears.

 

[flecc]

I did study your post Bob, but I couldn't reach a conclusion due to the variables. As you've remarked, the fitness
variations might account for it, since in a completely like for like test, that wouldn't happen, higher power to do a
job almost invariably leading to heavier consumption.

So as near as I could get is that you are probably right about the reasons, your differences over time.
.

 

[burncycle]

I did study your post Bob, but I couldn't reach a conclusion due to the variables. As you've remarked, the fitness
variations might account for it, since in a completely like for like test, that wouldn't happen, higher power to do a
job almost invariably leading to heavier consumption.

So as near as I could get is that you are probably right about the reasons, your differences over time.
.

Thanks Tony for the response.
You dont think it could or might be a battery issue?

 

[flecc]

I very much doubt it Bob, these bateries normally very consistent, hence their unique guarantee. It may be that
the lights are a bigger factor than we are allowing for, since they use an odd high voltage pulsed system to
produce an average lower voltage for the lights, and that might be a bit wasteful. It's interesting that a recent
photo of a Pro Connect showed it with a front hubdyno like that on the Agattu, so perhaps they've had second
thoughts.

I don't know if it's viable for you to do some more running without the lights to see what difference that makes,
though obviously please don't take any risks on that account.
.

 

[prState]

Hi all.
I am a little puzzled to why i have less range by moving from high power to medium power settings?
These could be the reasons...
1. i am much more fitter now, and therefore the power in my legs is drawing more current from the batteries up steep hills.
2. My rider style has now changed and im finding myself peddling constantly during my commute to work. I do the 5.12 mile commute now in 19mins as opposed to 23mins last month.
3. I have started to have my lights on all the time on the bike now the

Hmm, I'll offer a slightly modified guess from [2.] in that riding intuitively you're learing to maximize the power use that you are being given (getting the most out of it in other words). Thus why, even going to medium settings, you're making the bike work harder also.

I'd liken it to learning to work with another person on a bicycle built for two (if that person had machine like precision ). You move naturally to use their extra energy, unless, you're really focusing on poking along, which maybe you're not doing now?

 

[burncycle]

Hmm, I'll offer a slightly modified guess from [2.] in that riding intuitively you're learing to maximize the power use that you are being given (getting the most out of it in other words). Thus why, even going to medium settings, you're making the bike work harder also.

I'd liken it to learning to work with another person on a bicycle built for two (if that person had machine like precision ). You move naturally to use their extra energy, unless, you're really focusing on poking along, which maybe you're not doing now?

Thats a very differnet way to look at it, and you could well be right.

 

[baboon]

Burncycle, your findings are interesting. I have a 20-odd mile commute which until recently I covered entirely in "high-power" mode. Usually I got home with one light remaining on the battery.

When I tried it in "medium-power" mode, I got home with...one light remaining on the battery. What's more, the handlebar-mounted power display went from 3 to 2 lights and from 2 to 1 lights at more-or-less exactly the same places.

Also, I sometimes find myself changing from high- to medium-power and thinking that suddenly it's got easier. I'm not sure if this is psychological; it seems to happen more at higher speeds. For example at 20mph I seem to find it less work to ride in medium-power mode (I have an 18t pinion).

Conversely at 15mph it's easier in high-power mode.

Is it possible that somehow using a mode that is higher-power than you really need would slow you down? Some kind of resistance in the motor unit?

I am confused.

Peter

 

[flecc]

Don't forget the issue of the ratio of your effort and motor effort. At 20 mph you may be pedalling harder at the
higher speed, the motor exactly matching your input in standard mode. In High Power mode it has to give
1.3 times your input, and that could be beyond the rated power of what is a fairly small motor, so it can fail to
give the 1.3 times at that speed.

At 15 mph with less effort from you to maintain that speed, the motor's capability may well match 1.3 times your
effort Peter, so making the High Power mode appear more effective then.

This underlines that the system is designed as a 15 mph one, and changing the sprocket can mess that up as
I've mentioned previously.
.

 

[burncycle]

Burncycle, your findings are interesting. I have a 20-odd mile commute which until recently I covered entirely in "high-power" mode. Usually I got home with one light remaining on the battery.

When I tried it in "medium-power" mode, I got home with...one light remaining on the battery. What's more, the handlebar-mounted power display went from 3 to 2 lights and from 2 to 1 lights at more-or-less exactly the same places.

Also, I sometimes find myself changing from high- to medium-power and thinking that suddenly it's got easier. I'm not sure if this is psychological; it seems to happen more at higher speeds. For example at 20mph I seem to find it less work to ride in medium-power mode (I have an 18t pinion).

Conversely at 15mph it's easier in high-power mode.

Is it possible that somehow using a mode that is higher-power than you really need would slow you down? Some kind of resistance in the motor unit?

I am confused.

Peter

That's interesting Peter, because I was very tired last night, after doing a 51 hour week and I commuted there and back in high power mode.
I couldnt help notice that I did feel that bit less of a assist than on medium power mode, apart from very steep, very short hills.
That very strange isn't it?
The first time I'd used high power in a month.

 

[musicbooks]

Does anyone feel that the reasons I've listed could be lowering the range then?
Feels like its falling on deaf ears.

Hi Burncycle,
I never use the medium setting.. always in high, so I can't comment. But thanks for your feedback It is very useful, and good to see that the Agattu outperforms the Pro connect on almost every test run, or is that the rider..

Seriously though, I am finding that ironically, fitness can increase battery consumption becuase the more you push in higher gears the more the battery works for you.. Its very strange..

Thanks again and I will post my Agattu update in due course..

BW
musicbooks

 

[baboon]

I think flecc is right. In medium power mode I am asking for all that the motor can give, so switching to high power mode makes no difference.

It doesn't explain why at higher speeds medium power mode seems to give more assistance than high power mode, though. Perhaps it's all in the mind!

Peter

 

[flecc]

It's possible that the current demand on the battery at high speed and high power might be chemically tiring
the cells, something often observed previously with lithium. Medium power cuts the current drain and may
permit the cells to operate within normal parameters.
.

 

[burncycle]

This is all very interesting.
Getting to know the personality of the bike and battery.
I'll hopefully start the eco range testing next week when I get my bike back (dont ask why).

 

[prState]

It would be nice to have something to sit the powered wheel in and actually measure the powered output under various conditions. Then we would have the answers!

Of course that would be useful for all the bikes and their battery combinations.

 

[coops]

What sort of cadences are you all pedalling at?

In addition to whats been said re power, with the way power is supplied based on cadence
couldn't pedalling slower on medium power use as much or more power than pedalling faster on high power?

With improving fitness you could try pedalling at a higher cadence in the same power mode if you can:
that should give you more range aswell as being more efficient use of the rider's energy, and better for the knees too.

Stuart.

 

[burncycle]

What sort of cadences are you all pedalling at?

In addition to whats been said re power, with the way power is supplied based on cadence
couldn't pedalling slower on medium power use as much or more power than pedalling faster on high power?

With improving fitness you could try pedalling at a higher cadence in the same power mode if you can:
that should give you more range aswell as being more efficient use of the rider's energy, and better for the knees too.

Stuart.

Sorry stuart, I've no idea what cadence I travel at when cycling.
I havn't got a cycle computer fitted. I use a Garmin etrex for all my computing on the bike.

 

[coops]

Fair enough, Bob.

My suggestion was simply that if your pedal speed is slower on medium power than on high power
(i.e. if you're aware you're 'pushing' harder rather than 'spinning' faster on the pedals), then
the motor might be helping you more, leading to less range, similar to what prState posted, above.

I did notice your first test was 1 in 10 max on high power and your second 1 in 7 on medium
so the different climbing might account for some range loss?

The main thing I notice is that your journey is over 17% faster, so more power is coming from you & bike combined -
the range loss is quite low for the speed gain though, so I'd be happy with that and if you want more range
just increase your fitness & pedal speed and/or cut your road speed.

Fancy gear isn't required to work out cadence: I simply use a clock/watch to calculate mine and if you can estimate seconds
its very easy to tell if you're pedalling much more or less than 60rpm with no aid at all.

I hope thats useful.

Stuart.