Project GT RTS TEAM

skyloon

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 29, 2011
23
1
Hello everyone, i am new here but i would appreciate help and advice with my proposed project to turn my bike into a pedelec. I attach photos of my lovely 20 year old handbuilt GT which is original except for the marzocchi bombers which had to replace the rockshox titaniums. It is to be used to help me get up the local slopes in South Wales for pleasure rides not commuting. There is 135mm width for the rear axle and i want a rear drive and to keep as many of the 7 sprockets as possible. If it was possible i would prefer the battery to be in the frame somewhere near where the bottle cage is but failing that i would opt for the type that attaches to the rear of the seat tube. I am only about 10 stone so i dont think i need too powerful a motor but i do want reliability and i dont want to import parts from China. Your thoughts please.DSC_3641.jpgDSC_3642.jpgDSC_3639.jpgDSC_3640.jpgDSC_3641.jpgDSC_3642.jpgDSC_3639.jpgDSC_3640.jpgDSC_3641.jpg
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,602
30,870
The eZee kit motor is available in a rear drive version with suitable freewheels to give you 7 or more sprockets. There's a choice of battery types and mountings so one might suit:

cyclezee.com
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
How much do you want to pay. More money gets you an easier to fit kit. Is saving money a priority, or are you good at fixing/adapting stuff?
 

skyloon

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 29, 2011
23
1
If i saw the mods being done first then i would have more confidence. However as i am just starting out then i would be willing to pay more. I like the bionx kits but i wish they were under £1000
 

wurly

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2008
501
9
Yeovil, Somerset
Welcome to the forum.
Not sure how to advise you here. There are kits available but you have to know exactly what you want or you could spend a load of money and not be happy with the result. I got started buying a small tongxin motor and learning how to lace a wheel. I spent some time trying building a cheap battery pack but in the end decided to stop wasting my time and money and bought a Ping Lifepo4 battery complete with charger and never regretted it.
I bought a GT LTS recently to electrify. This will be my 4th ebike conversion and i have decided to fit a rear BPM motor. I'm probably going to need a new battery pack but as yet, i am undecided what to go for.
I spend quite a bit of time researching before i choose any part or parts.
Why don't you want to import from China? many have done so without too many problems. I ask this because your choice will be limited to kits and batteries supplied by people telling you want you need. £1000 is a hefty amount to spend. You should end up with a real nice set up if you choose wisely.
As far as i know, Bionix kits have regeneration, do you want that or would a geared hub motor with freewheeling be more suitable?
 

skyloon

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 29, 2011
23
1
Regenerative systems are not compatible with drag less freewheeling then? Thats important to know. I particularly liked the Bionx and Storck systems because the battery was within the frame triangle and evened out the weight. I didnt want a front motor because on the slopes it might lose traction and i like being able to take the front wheel off easily to transport the bike. It sounds like sourcing the motor wont be a problem but choosing the battery might be more difficult. I am thinking of a frame battery bag like the one i saw at Hi Power Cycles and putting the controller on the seat post. I wonder if anyone on here has done a set up like this?
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
If I understand you right, the emphasis is on off-road ability, The most expensive and vulnerable part of your kit will be the battery, which would be likely to get a bit of a shaking. Mounting it in a bag might work as long as you don't get one with the small 18650 cells. Pouch-type cells should be more robust as they have less connections. Mounting the batteryon the seatpost will need a fairly strong or well-braced rack. The aluminium ones aren't strong enough. You can get steel ones very cheaply on Ebay, which is what I use for my 7kg Ping plus toolkit etc, but they come from China. You can use an aluminium one as long as you add a couple of extra struts to a lower position on the frame or seatpost to stop it flrexing at the joint. The Frog type batteries have fairly strong steel mounts that also house the controller. You need to check if there's enough clearance above your backwheel at maximum compression.

If you're going to do serious off-road (jumping etc) then you need to think a bit more about the motor. There's only one crank drive kit that might be suitable, but I can't remember who makes it, pehaps Flecc can give a link. It had a name like Sunstar IIRC, but I don't know how easy they are to get hold of. A guy on the forum was looking at one, but never reported back. That leaves hub-motors. Small nylon gears don't go well with jumping, but on the other hand they're cheap enough to repair and even if you don't want to dismantle one the whole motor only costs about £100 to replace. Bigger ones like Ezee and BPM will be stronger but heavier. Tongzin is too fragile. Nearly all the americans use larger direct drive motors for off road which need a lot of power to climb hills. There's one small direct drive motor that I've seen that might work, supplied by Golden Motor and others, but you have to get it from China and you have the problem with drag.
If you want to buy a kit that just bolts on, your choice comes down to a Juicy kit with Frog battery and hope that the motor gears last long enough, or an Ezee kit that has a much stronger and more powerful but heavier motor. They supply a bag for the battery that I think can be clipped to the cross-tube, but if not couls easily be adapted. The Bionx kit might work, but problems are very expensive to repair. They're relatively heavy too.

Whatever you choose, it'll be a compromise. Everything has advantages and disadvantages. Ther's no perfect solution so you won't find it.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,602
30,870
Here's the link to the supplier of the latest Sunstar SO3 unit that d8veh has referred to above:

Sunstar SO3 kits

These have tended to be on the low powered side and the mounting position on some frames will be rather vulnerable in off-road usage.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
Found this: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=sunstar ebike kit&source=web&cd=14&ved=0CF0QFjADOAo&url=http://www.datei.de/public/extraenergy/2012_Veranstaltungen/110721_24_Bike_Expo/110721_24_Antriebs-Technik/110721-Sunstar-Bike-Expo.pdf&ctbs=qdr:y&ei=vq7kTrKnLseX8QP-zvSEBA&usg=AFQjCNErb46tin1vMYEpaWqUjONPtVee-Q&sig2=g--G2pq9Azo53kB0FDxZUA&cad=rja
In this PDF, it shows one fitted to s Dahaon -much easier than a hub motor.
From memory they were about £1000, but if they're cheaper, I might have to get one for experimentation purposes. There's also a German Youtube video, where the bloke says that it can be fitted in about a half an hour.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,602
30,870
Thanks for the pdf link d8veh, useful to have the specification of the SO3 at last. The peak power of 330 watts and small batteries are the same as previous versions. The main change seems to be the three switchable power levels.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
I've been investgating: A guy on the German forum had the idea to run one from a normal brushless controller direct to the motor with a throttle because he didn't like the way it ramps down the power depending on cadence (like the Panasonic). He used the hall sensors and when he tried it, it kept cutting out after a set time regardless of throttle position. He didn't get an answer as to why. That was my idea as well. Trust the Germans to get there first. It should still be feasible, but not worth the risk at £1000. Back to my mid-drive hub motor project I guess.:(
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,602
30,870
Yes, it is the very strict Japanese laws which often blight their designs, unless export versions are produced. This also appears to have affected the Panasonic front hub motor which was introduced here in small quantities and the new Shimano STEPS e-bike system, the latter not adopted by any manufacturer it seems, despite Shimano's status in the bike world. All low powered and usually having operational restrictions. Dapu in contrast seem to have designed more for the export market.

I wonder if that German's motor cut-out experience was in some way due to the peculiar 6 internally switched adjustments for wheel size, an odd concept for a crank drive motor. I've no idea how that is implemented.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,602
30,870
It's a transistor-like device that can sense magnetism and responds to it by passing a pulse of current.

In our brushless motors Hall sensors sense the rotor magnets as they pass and send the information on their position to the controller. That enables the controller to send correctly timed pulses of phase current that drive the motor. You can see that the combination of the integral motor Hall sensors and the controller replace the commutator and brushes in a brush motor.

We have another Hall sensor use in e-bikes, many twistgrip throttles have a Hall sensor which reads from magnets or a magnet which the twistgrip rotates past it. As the magnetic field changes, the Hall sensor sends an increasing current signal to the controller to indicate the power level called for.

Yet a further use on some e-bikes is a Hall sensor reading from a disc with peripheral magnets that's on the pedal shaft. That enables the controller to know if the pedals are being used, enabling power only with pedalling on pedelec models.

Wikipedia article
.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
I'd explain it as a magnetically operated tap for electricity. Some simply switch on when a magnet comes close and others give a varying amount of electricity depending on how much magnetism is near by. The latter can be used as throttles and the former are used to send pulses from the motor to the controller so that the controller can see how far and how fast the motor is going.