Help! PSW conversion kit on Carrera Subway 2?

[unknown quantity]

Hi, I've been considering a conversion kit for a while and am looking for some advice from you experts on whether what I'm thinking is a good idea!?

About me:
I'm mid fifties, 6ft and 75kg, reasonably fit for my age, play sports but never really been a big cyclist.

I cycle a couple of times a week on a 30 year old mountain bike, about 5-6 miles mainly on roads and cycle paths. A lot of fairly hilly roads but nothing too long or steep. It's often pretty windy and rainy here too.

I'm hoping to increase the amount of cycling I do now that I'm partly retired and to get me out my car more. I don't plan to cover long distances on the converted bike (probably 15-20 miles max per journey). Also, the max legal speed of 25 kmph is fine for me.

I've been offered a 3 year old Carrera Subway 2 for £100 from a seller on Gumtree. Not seen or tried it yet but have been assured it's in very good condition. Obviously need to try it out to see its condition and if it suits me etc. I've seen a few posts on here that suggest the subway is a good bike for front hub conversion with its steel front forks.

I have also been looking at this front hub kit from PSW Power and wondering what people's thoughts are on the suitability of this for the Subway bike and any potential issues with fitting it and the kit components in general?

The cost would be £156 for kit + £155 for 15ah battery delivered from Germany.

One thing I did notice was that the Subway 2 comes with hydraulic brakes - does that present a problem with this kit and, if so, what are my options?

MXUS Electric Bicycle kit XF07 36V 250W XF15F 36V 350W 48V 500W 26”28”700C Front Wheel Brushless gear Motor E bike Conversion kit

MXUS Electric Bicycle kit XF07 36V 250W XF15F 36V 350W 48V 500W 26”28”700C Front Wheel Brushless gear Motor E bike Conversion kit

www.pswpower.com

XF07 36V 250W SPEC:
(26 inch on load max speed from 25km/h to 28km/h by LCD5,28 inch 700C on load max speed from 25km/h to 30km/h by LCD5)
Package include:
1.Hand built double walled rim complete with 13G spokes
26 inch outer diameter 572MM. inner diameter 512MM
28 inch and 700C outer diameter 634.5MM. inner diameter 574.5MM
2.KT 36V 250W 6Mosfets 15A Brushless DC Sine Wave Controller
3.LCD: KT-LCD5
4.Wuxing Brand Throttle
5.Wuxing Brand Brake Lever
6.PAS: Dual Hall Sensor
7.Wuxing Brand LED light
8.Controller case
9.Battery cable(Pay attention to the positive and negative poles，If the installation is wrong，Controller will be burned, No warranty for this way)
10. 1 to 5 cable

XF07 Front Motor
Position Front
Construction Gear
Rated Voltage(V) 36
Rated Power(W) 250
Weight(Kg) 2.8
Reduction Ratio 1：4.4
Wheel Diameter(lnch) 20-28
Rated Speed(km/h) RPM 270
Magnet Poles(2P) 10
Fork size (Dropout Size) 100mm
Brake Type V/Disk brake
Operating Temperature(℃) -20-45
Efficiency(%) ≥ 78%
Color Black
Cabling Route Shaft center right
Noise Grade(DB) ≤55
IP Grade IP54
Salt Spray Test Standard 24/96
Connector:hall sensor and sensorless compatible
Speed Detection Signal(Pulses/Cycle) 1
Certifications ROHS/CE
Spoke Specification 36H*13G
Cable Length(mm), Connection Type 250 G9.1

36V 250W 6Mosfets 15A Brushless DC Sine Wave Controller SPEC:
Technical Data:
Input Voltage: DC 36V
Min. Voltage: DC20V/30±0.5V
Max. Current: 15±1A
Speed set: 1-4.2V
Brake Input: Low-Level
Size: 86x52x31mm
Color: Silver
Weight: 0.3kg
6 pcs MOSFET
Applicatoin: Max. 36V 250W
Fits 250W sensor motor

Also looking at this battery to go with it:

www.pswpower.com/products/eu-no-tax-electric-ebike-battery-hailong-g70-samsung-lg-18650-cells-pack-48v-13ah-145ah-175ah-lithium-battery-fit-1000w-motor-108
HAILONG G56 36V 15AH SpecificationInclude 2A Charger)
Rated capacity: 15AH
3P10S Li-ion 5Ah 21700 30pcs battery cells (the interior battery is SAMSUNG INR21700-50E Li-ion battery)

Any input welcome!

Thanks for your help.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Looks good. Hydraulic disc brakes are what you want on an electric bike - you can get hydraulic brake sensors , but these are only essential if you are using a throttle. I think I would be tempted to do rear hub conversion but I think front would be fine
If you wanted to spend a bit more and want some good uk support, I would recommend the Woosh torque sensor kit with sine wave power based controller https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?tskit

�

Motor	Battery
XF07 36V 42NM front hub	+ 10AH bag battery: £449 + 15AH bag battery: £499

 

[saneagle]

Don't forget that you'll have to pay VAT and handling cost on top of those prices. Also, it might be better to get your battery from Greenlance in UK. Their prices are pretty good, and so is everything else about them. Subway is a good bike for conversion. Hydraulic brakes are no problem. You can run without switches with that controller, but the switches are not expensive nor difficult to fit, so why not get some?

Front motor works, though it's nowhere near as pleasant as a rear one. At least the Subway has steel forks which mitigate some of the safety issues you get on other bikes. The main downsides you're left with are the lack of traction, increased noise and possible affect on steering, none of which are deal breakers unless you want to climb some steep trails.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Just one other point - I was getting 60 miles range with reasonably heavy use of an XF08c motor with 36v 20Ah battery - so I think 36V 15Ah will do quite a bit more than your 15-20 miles max, but my experience, since getting an electric bike, is I can and want to do much longer journeys than I thought would have been possible before I got it

 

[Waspy]

I believe the Subway2 comes with 27.5" wheels but that kit does not list that wheel size.

With the left-hand PAS sensor shown with that kit, you need to ensure there is sufficient room between your left crank and your bottom bracket. I have one and it was very easy to fit, very tidy and it works very well. I had a 7mm gap, so no problem for me. If your gap is too small, a longer bottom bracket will be needed (relatively easy and cheap to do) I'm assuming the Carrera has a square taper bottom bracket? Also, I believe the bottom bracket should have metal bearing cups rather than plastic ones. I was told that the PAS sensor won’t mesh with the splines on plastic cups.

Also, this kit comes with a separate controller rather than one built into the battery cradle. That makes for a more untidy installation but on the other hand it makes swapping components much easier I guess.

 

[Benjahmin]

Saneagles right, a front hub will seem noisier 'cos the motor's in front of you. There are some traction issues on steep, loose/greasy surfaces - normally turns up as bit of scrubbing usually handled by moving your shoulders over the bars. There are some low speed tight manouvering issues but eliminated by using the brake mounted kill switch.
Overall though I've found it works fine up and down the hills of Wales and rear rack battery/front hub is a fair weight distribution.
Rear hub will eliminate all this and, with the battery in the frame, be a lower centre of gravity.
You may need to increase the brake disc size in the motor wheel - 180mm normally does it. All parts easily obtainable.
Given what you say about your weight/fitness and age, the kit you spec will do a good job and encourage you to get out more than you think.
The 15Ah battery is more expensive than smaller ones, but will be more than good enough for the distances you want and not suffer from range anxiety. I always buy the biggest I can afford.

 

[Woosh]

Hi, I've been considering a conversion kit for a while and am looking for some advice from you experts on whether what I'm thinking is a good idea!?

About me:
I'm mid fifties, 6ft and 75kg, reasonably fit for my age, play sports but never really been a big cyclist.

I cycle a couple of times a week on a 30 year old mountain bike, about 5-6 miles mainly on roads and cycle paths. A lot of fairly hilly roads but nothing too long or steep. It's often pretty windy and rainy here too.

I'm hoping to increase the amount of cycling I do now that I'm partly retired and to get me out my car more. I don't plan to cover long distances on the converted bike (probably 15-20 miles max per journey). Also, the max legal speed of 25 kmph is fine for me.

I've been offered a 3 year old Carrera Subway 2 for £100 from a seller on Gumtree. Not seen or tried it yet but have been assured it's in very good condition. Obviously need to try it out to see its condition and if it suits me etc. I've seen a few posts on here that suggest the subway is a good bike for front hub conversion with its steel front forks.

I have also been looking at this front hub kit from PSW Power and wondering what people's thoughts are on the suitability of this for the Subway bike and any potential issues with fitting it and the kit components in general?

The cost would be £156 for kit + £155 for 15ah battery delivered from Germany.

One thing I did notice was that the Subway 2 comes with hydraulic brakes - does that present a problem with this kit and, if so, what are my options?

MXUS Electric Bicycle kit XF07 36V 250W XF15F 36V 350W 48V 500W 26”28”700C Front Wheel Brushless gear Motor E bike Conversion kit

MXUS Electric Bicycle kit XF07 36V 250W XF15F 36V 350W 48V 500W 26”28”700C Front Wheel Brushless gear Motor E bike Conversion kit

www.pswpower.com

XF07 36V 250W SPEC:
(26 inch on load max speed from 25km/h to 28km/h by LCD5,28 inch 700C on load max speed from 25km/h to 30km/h by LCD5)
Package include:
1.Hand built double walled rim complete with 13G spokes
26 inch outer diameter 572MM. inner diameter 512MM
28 inch and 700C outer diameter 634.5MM. inner diameter 574.5MM
2.KT 36V 250W 6Mosfets 15A Brushless DC Sine Wave Controller
3.LCD: KT-LCD5
4.Wuxing Brand Throttle
5.Wuxing Brand Brake Lever
6.PAS: Dual Hall Sensor
7.Wuxing Brand LED light
8.Controller case
9.Battery cable(Pay attention to the positive and negative poles，If the installation is wrong，Controller will be burned, No warranty for this way)
10. 1 to 5 cable

XF07 Front Motor
Position Front
Construction Gear
Rated Voltage(V) 36
Rated Power(W) 250
Weight(Kg) 2.8
Reduction Ratio 1：4.4
Wheel Diameter(lnch) 20-28
Rated Speed(km/h) RPM 270
Magnet Poles(2P) 10
Fork size (Dropout Size) 100mm
Brake Type V/Disk brake
Operating Temperature(℃) -20-45
Efficiency(%) ≥ 78%
Color Black
Cabling Route Shaft center right
Noise Grade(DB) ≤55
IP Grade IP54
Salt Spray Test Standard 24/96
Connector:hall sensor and sensorless compatible
Speed Detection Signal(Pulses/Cycle) 1
Certifications ROHS/CE
Spoke Specification 36H*13G
Cable Length(mm), Connection Type 250 G9.1

36V 250W 6Mosfets 15A Brushless DC Sine Wave Controller SPEC:
Technical Data:
Input Voltage: DC 36V
Min. Voltage: DC20V/30±0.5V
Max. Current: 15±1A
Speed set: 1-4.2V
Brake Input: Low-Level
Size: 86x52x31mm
Color: Silver
Weight: 0.3kg
6 pcs MOSFET
Applicatoin: Max. 36V 250W
Fits 250W sensor motor

Also looking at this battery to go with it:

www.pswpower.com/products/eu-no-tax-electric-ebike-battery-hailong-g70-samsung-lg-18650-cells-pack-48v-13ah-145ah-175ah-lithium-battery-fit-1000w-motor-108
HAILONG G56 36V 15AH SpecificationInclude 2A Charger)
Rated capacity: 15AH
3P10S Li-ion 5Ah 21700 30pcs battery cells (the interior battery is SAMSUNG INR21700-50E Li-ion battery)

Any input welcome!

Thanks for your help.

I reckon that the XF07 front hub kit is OK for power, weight and noise but as you have fixed forks, the vibrations from the motor won't be absorbed like with a Carrera with suspension fork, so it's not as pleasant to ride.
For your 75kg weight and hilly terrain, you would be better off with my XF08C rear hub conversion and I have it in 27.5" rim.
https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#xf08ckit
the XF08C is more torquey, robust and has freehub body. Your old 8-speed cassette will go on it.
For a neater installation, choose LCD option only. The wiring is very simple, there is only one thin 100cm cable running from the base of the downtube battery to the LCD.
If you are interested, give Andy@wooshbikes.co.uk a call or use the livechat on the webpage.

 

[Nealh]

The PSWP kit has the nice KT control system so that is a big plus , one can usuallly pootle around with assist level 1 on flat terrain or maybe 2 if not as fit. The other three assists are ideal for inclines and steeper hills where thye deliver more power of 33%, 50% & 100%.
Generally most poo poo front hubs but their not to bad if they aren't the larger more powerful models like the BPM. Tbh one doesn't want suspenesion forks with a front motor but one can negate some of the undulations with a redshift shok stem.

The only reason noise is mentioned is because one is behind the hub so any noise resonates more , if one followed a rear hub bike one would also here the same noise. The KT will likely be a sinewave controller and a sensored motor so tbh any noise will be negligble.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I reckon that the XF07 front hub kit is OK for power, weight and noise but as you have fixed forks, the vibrations from the motor won't be absorbed like with a Carrera with suspension fork, so it's not as pleasant to ride.
For your 75kg weight and hilly terrain, you would be better off with my XF08C rear hub conversion and I have it in 27.5" rim.
https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#xf08ckit
the XF08C is more torquey, robust and has freehub body. Your old 8-speed cassette will go on it.
For a neater installation, choose LCD option only. The wiring is very simple, there is only one thin 100cm cable running from the base of the downtube battery to the LCD.
If you are interested, give Andy@wooshbikes.co.uk a call or use the livechat on the webpage.

Am I correct in thinking the cadence sensor version has speed based pas levels (and an 18 amp max current controller) and the bottom bracket torque sensor version has power based pas levels (and a 15 amp max current controller)

 

[Woosh]

yes, you are correct.

 

[unknown quantity]

Thanks for all your responses. Lot of very useful info for me to consider!
I didn't even realise that 27.5" rim was different from 700 rim! That's confusing and a bit limiting!
I did look at the various Woosh kits and I really like the look of them but they are maybe a bit more expensive than I was wanting to pay for my first attempt into the world of ebikes. But they do seem the simplest design with the best support so I definitely won't discount the option..
The point Woosh makes about the rigid front forks being unpleasant to ride makes me wonder if I'd be better going for a used Carrera Crossfire 2 as I've seen a few of them for sale for around £100 as well in recent weeks. I believe these are a bit heavier than the Subway, but I don't have any stairs to carry it up so that wouldn't be a problem. They also have standard disk breaks rather than hydraulic which might simplify things a little. Any thoughts on that being a better option than the Subway?

My original thinking was that a front motor would be easier to fit but I might now consider a rear hub motor as I'm getting the sense that most people prefer them.

Thanks again for all your comments and help, very much appreciated

 

[Peter.Bridge]

They also have standard disk breaks rather than hydraulic which might simplify things a little. Any thoughts on that being a better option than the Subway?

No - I think having the hydraulic disc brakes is very important (it's an easy job to upgrade from manual disc brakes). I'd stick with your original idea, but maybe consider a rear hub. I had a carrera vulcan with manual disc brakes, but upgraded to hydraulic - well worth it.

 

[Waspy]

What make and model is your 30 year old mountain bike? My Trek is 20 years old and it works well with my conversion kit.

 

[unknown quantity]

What make and model is your 30 year old mountain bike? My Trek is 20 years old and it works well with my conversion kit.

I did think about that - it's a claud butler trailridge mountain bike. However, it's got off-road knobbly tyres with v brakes so I'm not sure it's up to the task.
I thought a newer bike (like the Subway or crossfire) with relatively standard fittings might be better if people were able to confirm that they had already been able to convert these.
I have been keeping an eye out for older mountain/hybrid bikes that I thought might be suitable though..

 

[Waspy]

Tyres are easily changed, but yeah, the problem is wheel size, if you upgraded your Claude Butler and liked it (which you will) and then thought about upgrading to a newer disc braked bike and transplanting your kit, you are stuck with 26" wheeled bikes.

Mind you there are plenty of used 26" bikes with disk brakes out there, but they are really out of fashion now and 27.5" and 29" wheels are where it's at, for mountain bikes anyway, hybrids all use 700c normally.

I don't know how handy you are but another option could be to get a pair of forks and front wheel from eBay that are suitable for disc brakes and fit them to your Claud Butler. You could at least have a hydraulic disc on the front. Probably more than the bike's worth though so a new donor bike might be your best option.

A used Carrera Crossfire2 for £100 would be great, convert it, enjoy it, upgrade the brakes at your leisure.

Just convert something and get out there by springtime!

 

[Waspy]

For inspiration here is my 20 year old Trek with a Woosh rear hub conversion, pretty easy job really.

26" wheels with disc brakes, since this picture was taken I have upgraded the front brake to hydraulic (massive improvement) for £30. The tyres are only slightly knobbly.

I intend to upgrade the rear brake this spring/summer.

So 26" is possible, but upon reflection, I think if I was to do this again, I would start with a 27.5" bike

 

[Peter.Bridge]

My Carrera Vulcan is 26 inch wheels, roughly 15 years old and originally had manual disc brakes. I'm not sure the xcm oil filled front suspension is really necessary on roads, but it's fine. I've only ever thought of the 26 inch wheels as an advantage, for the same speed the hub motor is rotating faster, so better hill climbing ability. There seems loads of suitable bikes (disc brakes, space for battery, "normal" bottom bracket )on gumtree, Facebook marketplace and eBay with 26 inch 27.5 inch /650 and 700c wheels, not sure wheel size really matters that much. I think it is worth getting a suitable donor bike though, makes things much easier / better end result

 

[saneagle]

They also have standard disk breaks rather than hydraulic which might simplify things a little. Any thoughts on that being a better option than the Subway?

Even if you buy a donor bike with cable disc brakes, you should upgrade them to hydraulics, which are massively better.

One more point about a front motor. You have to make sure that your drop-outs are the most inboard part of the forks, otherwise you can get problems with the motor rubbing on the forks, and in some cases it doesn't even fit.

 

[unknown quantity]

For inspiration here is my 20 year old Trek with a Woosh rear hub conversion, pretty easy job really.

26" wheels with disc brakes, since this picture was taken I have upgraded the front brake to hydraulic (massive improvement) for £30. The tyres are only slightly knobbly.

I intend to upgrade the rear brake this spring/summer.

So 26" is possible, but upon reflection, I think if I was to do this again, I would start with a 27.5" bike

Nice bike Waspy, thanks for sharing! I kind of like the idea of using an older (less flashy?) donor bike. I think I'll definitely buy another donor bike as it's probably not worth upgrading my existing bike as you mention.
I need to do a bit of thinking on what exactly. I am supposed to be going to see the £100 Subway 2 I mentioned earlier on Monday so that is still an option.

 

[unknown quantity]

My Carrera Vulcan is 26 inch wheels, roughly 15 years old and originally had manual disc brakes. I'm not sure the xcm oil filled front suspension is really necessary on roads, but it's fine. I've only ever thought of the 26 inch wheels as an advantage, for the same speed the hub motor is rotating faster, so better hill climbing ability. There seems loads of suitable bikes (disc brakes, space for battery, "normal" bottom bracket )on gumtree, Facebook marketplace and eBay with 26 inch 27.5 inch /650 and 700c wheels, not sure wheel size really matters that much. I think it is worth getting a suitable donor bike though, makes things much easier / better end result

Thanks Peter. Just so I'm clear, what do you mean by a 'normal' bottom bracket and can I tell which types of bike have a normal bracket and those that don't?