Q128H

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Forge Custom

Pedelecer
May 14, 2016
88
3
52
Dorset
I know I am resurrecting an old post here but I have a quick question. I see people here using the 36V Q128C 201RPM with the 48Volt shark pack with integrated 18amp controller and I want to buy this exact setup, but was told that the 18amp controller was too small for this setup. Seems people here are doing it. Curious if I can get some feedback on this. Also bike is a 700C commuter and I weigh 105kg but i do plan to pedal all the time with a PAS installed. I am not a fan of the larger 09 battery with 20 amp controler and would prefer the shark pack with 18amp if it was suitable.

I am open to any advice and suggestions.

Best regards,

Marc
Hi Marc

Looking at the exact same setup. Did you ever buy it? thanks Matt
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
It works
Hi Marc

Looking at the exact same setup. Did you ever buy it? thanks Matt
It works perfectly. Top speed is about 22 - 24 mph on the road - maybe a bit faster in good conditions, but power starts to ramp down from about 22 mph. Buy the Q128C if you have 8 or more gears at the back and the Q128H if you have 7 or less. The Q128C has a slightly lower power rating, but you don't notice much difference on the road.
 

Forge Custom

Pedelecer
May 14, 2016
88
3
52
Dorset
It works

It works perfectly. Top speed is about 22 - 24 mph on the road - maybe a bit faster in good conditions, but power starts to ramp down from about 22 mph. Buy the Q128C if you have 8 or more gears at the back and the Q128H if you have 7 or less. The Q128C has a slightly lower power rating, but you don't notice much difference on the road.
Is there any info of how the Q128C performs off road? Nothing mad - just the odd short climb. Pretty certain this will be my set up now. The BMS 48v battery with integrated 20a controller also looks a tidy option.
 

Marc Webster

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 17, 2016
13
2
48
Glendale, California USA
Hi Marc

Looking at the exact same setup. Did you ever buy it? thanks Matt
Hello Forge,

Yes I did. It works so well I am considering upgrading my wife's bike. I got the Cassette version and was able to get an 11spd on there so as not to modify my drivetrain. My SRAM 11 was a bit too long so had to buy a shimano version made for mountainbikes. The SRAM 11spd version for mountain bikes would have worked as well, but my LBS did not have it as I had them build the wheel for me from parts I gave them.

I now can get to work only 5 minutes slower than if I drove and often faster when traffic is crazy. I do not have a throttle and set it up a PAS only. Also no brake interlocks, but plan to add them soon. Only complaint I have is my front crank is too small now and I need to upgrade to more teeth as on PAS setting 4 or higher, my cadence maxes out with little to no resistance. I usually ride a PAS 3 and it keeps me in the high to mid 20mph range.

There is a pic on the last page here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83886&start=225
 

Forge Custom

Pedelecer
May 14, 2016
88
3
52
Dorset
Hello Forge,

Yes I did. It works so well I am considering upgrading my wife's bike. I got the Cassette version and was able to get an 11spd on there so as not to modify my drivetrain. My SRAM 11 was a bit too long so had to buy a shimano version made for mountainbikes. The SRAM 11spd version for mountain bikes would have worked as well, but my LBS did not have it as I had them build the wheel for me from parts I gave them.

I now can get to work only 5 minutes slower than if I drove and often faster when traffic is crazy. I do not have a throttle and set it up a PAS only. Also no brake interlocks, but plan to add them soon. Only complaint I have is my front crank is too small now and I need to upgrade to more teeth as on PAS setting 4 or higher, my cadence maxes out with little to no resistance. I usually ride a PAS 3 and it keeps me in the high to mid 20mph range.

There is a pic on the last page here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83886&start=225
Ah excellent. I plan to put mine on a mountain bike with a SRAM 11spd. Integrated 18 amp controller all good?
 

daffy99

Pedelecer
Jul 17, 2017
29
-1
49
Switzerland
Only complaint I have is my front crank is too small now and I need to upgrade to more teeth as on PAS setting 4 or higher, my cadence maxes out with little to no resistance. I usually ride a PAS 3 and it keeps me in the high to mid 20mph range.
Your posting https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88523&p=1291021#p1291021 with more numbers and wattage piqued my interest.

I have put some numbers into the EPACSim tool available from the German pedelec forum (https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/epacsim-diskussion-dokumentation-download-messdaten.18875/) as someone was so kind to post measurement data for and from a real Q128C 201 rpm @ 36 Volt.

So, according to _that_ simulator, with worst case rolling resistance and worst case areodynamic drag, with a small 26" tyre, and some 13s (48 Volt) battery, the top electrical speed would be 35 km/h (21 mph). Your (normal-size) 700c tyre would make it go faster, your 52 Volt battery would make it go faster.

Sorry for rambling, but these numbers really do make me rethink my current choice of a Q128C. A Q100C might be good enough?

In my use cases, the Q128C is meant to deliver grunt (uphill, from stand-still) rather than speed, as legal rules define 25km/h as the magic "end of motor support" terminal speed. (Give or take <ahem>). From what you describe, and from the numbers you list, a Q128C looks like a testosterone-charged wolf in sheep's clothing, with power (potential) that I wouldn't be allowed to fully enjoy? (<-- note the carefully choice of words <ahem>)

PS: The other simulators I am aware of are www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html and www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator2.html (beta version of next release) - but they do not seem to have real data for a Q128C. The Q100C is said to match the MXUS XF07, BTW.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
Y
I have put some numbers into the EPACSim tool available from the German pedelec forum (https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/epacsim-diskussion-dokumentation-download-messdaten.18875/) as someone was so kind to post measurement data for and from a real Q128C 201 rpm @ 36 Volt.
You don't need a simulator. I have the 36v 201 rpm Q128C at 48v in my bike (NTB) with 26" wheels. I can do 22 mph on the flat with steady pedalling and a battery at about 52v. A very fit person could probably sustain 24 mph. Power continues to assist to about 28 mph, but on a declining basis. A bike with rigid forks and thin 700c wheels would have less air resistance and rolling resistance, so it would most likely get the full gain in speed from the bigger wheel diameter, so 7.5% more than the speeds I get. all those speeds change in direct proportion to the actual battery voltage

The 48v 201 rpm Q128H/C in a 26" wheel MTBmaxes out at 19 mph on the road with a battery at about 52v, so if you restrict to 15.5 mph, that one would make a lot more sense.

If you want the lightest build and/or you weigh less than 80kg, a Q100C/H would probably be a better choice unless you want or need the extra power from the Q128.
 

daffy99

Pedelecer
Jul 17, 2017
29
-1
49
Switzerland
90 kg + load + 13 kg bike as it is + electrification = 115+ kg system weight after electrification.

Target is a 26" full suspension bike which I can ride just shy of 20 mph on hard-packed gravel for a few miles, if I push it, with profiled tyres (Schwalbe Nobby Nic). Gearing of that bike goes to slightly above 40 km/h (28 mph) at a cadence of 90 rpm. I plan to ride wide Schwalbe Big Apple (balloon) tyres in wide rims (29mm) in electro mode.

I think I will invest into that one kilogram of weight differential and (still) get the Q128C.
 

cwah

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 3, 2011
2,999
178
www.whatonlondon.co.uk
I'd like to increase efficiency of my cargo bike. It has a DD motor but as it gets heavy and I m on a start & stop city it uses a lot of power inefficiently.

It gets worse when I carry passengers.

Would a front q128h 201 rpm best for my setting? I just need the initial boost then it can switch to the DD.

Or the xiondga is enough?
 

carlic

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 7, 2019
5
0
Hello all

I have been using a Q100H@36V and have been quite happy with it, but since I have some short 20% hills in my daily commute I can barrely make them even when peddaling like mad.
The Q128H seems like a worthy upgrade, since direct-drive motors seem to be quite heavy and low torque. Fitting a mid-drive seems a hassle at this point and I would loose the front gears.

My questions are:
-Is the motor sensored? My Q100H struggles from standstill when I give it (thumb) throttle. I dont use pas or lcd.
-What type of controlers will work besides the S09P, S12P and S12S ? Are the sinewave ones really that better? They are rated up to 48V, could they possibly even run 75V? (I have multiple 6S rc lipos collecting dust).
- I like to keep it simple. Will it run with thumb throttle only (no pas and lcd)?
-Are there any other suppliers than BMS? I find a 117$ shipping fee to EU a bit much.


@1boris How are you getting 44kmh and others get only about 30kmh? The maximum (38kmh) I'we noticed is from a guy runing a 59-67V lipo?

Best regards
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
2,818
814
Basildon
The sine wave controllers are definitely better.

The motor has hall sensors and a speed sensor.

At 48v, the 22 amp KT sinewave controller from PSWPower would be very suitable.

There’s no point in going to a higher voltage than that.

The 48v 201 rpm version does 18 mph max in a 26" wheel. At 12S, it'll be around 16 mph.

The ideal version for you would probably be the 36v 260 rpm one at 12S. To get around 23 mph max, however, BMSB have messed up all their designations now, so it's not clear which one that is. Originally, the Q128 had two windings 201 rpm and 328 rpm, both with 8:1 reduction, then came the Q128H, which was the 328rpm version with 12:1 reduction to get more torque and less speed. If you need good torque, look for a version that has the higher reduction ratio.

You can run with throttle only, but why would you want to do that when PAS is so much better?
 

carlic

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 7, 2019
5
0
Looks like both 36 and 48V versions are now 201rpm. Persumably the 48V has more torque?
Running the 36 version on 48V would probably make it spin at 268rpm?

What about pas do you like? I like to control the power and sometimes not even pedal at all.
Are there any other newer/better options simmilar to the Q128H?
EU dealer?

Thanks
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,782
5,757
The European Union
I have been using a Q100H@36V and have been quite happy with it, but since I have some short 20% hills in my daily commute I can barrely make them even when peddaling like mad.

...

My Q100H struggles from standstill when I give it (thumb) throttle. I dont use pas or lcd.
What assistance level are you in?

Of course you have to pedal, it is an assisted bike not a moped, I have no issues on short 20% gradients or leaving red lights, I don't think the motor is at fault.
 

carlic

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 7, 2019
5
0
I am not sure about the level since I bought the bike with thumb throttle only. I always persumed power is simply proportional to the throttle position?

Dont really care for the assisted / powered debate.
My quess is that my motor/controller is not sensored so starts from standstill make it desync (as aspected). I would just preffer my next built not to do that.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
2,818
814
Basildon
Looks like both 36 and 48V versions are now 201rpm. Persumably the 48V has more torque?
Running the 36 version on 48V would probably make it spin at 268rpm?

What about pas do you like? I like to control the power and sometimes not even pedal at all.
Are there any other newer/better options simmilar to the Q128H?
EU dealer?

Thanks
You can have both PAS and throttle. Use the PAS most of the time because it's more convenient and efficient, then use the throttle whenever you want. Assuming a KT controller, the throttle is proportional whenever you're not pedalling, but if you're pedalling, it becomes a level 5 boost.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
2,818
814
Basildon
I am not sure about the level since I bought the bike with thumb throttle only. I always persumed power is simply proportional to the throttle position?

Dont really care for the assisted / powered debate.
My quess is that my motor/controller is not sensored so starts from standstill make it desync (as aspected). I would just preffer my next built not to do that.
In most situations, the throttle is a speed controller, not a power controller. You get max power until the bike speed matches the throttle speed position.

Q 100's are sensored. They have never run well sensorless. Other motors are much better when run sensorless, probably because they commutate at a lower speed.
 

carlic

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 7, 2019
5
0
I got a response from BMS saying the Q128H should reach 45kmh in ideal conditions at nominal voltage. I find that hard to believe since only @1boris had experienced it and I suspect he recieved a higher rpm version.

Currently they only stock 201rpm versions and they dont reccomend runing a 36V version on 48V.
36V 260rpm is possible with a special order but with a production time of 20days.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
2,818
814
Basildon
I got a response from BMS saying the Q128H should reach 45kmh in ideal conditions at nominal voltage. I find that hard to believe since only @1boris had experienced it and I suspect he recieved a higher rpm version.

Currently they only stock 201rpm versions and they dont reccomend runing a 36V version on 48V.
36V 260rpm is possible with a special order but with a production time of 20days.
That depends on your wheel size. A 26" wheel will spin to around 28mph or 44.8 km/h with the wheel off the ground when the battery is fully-charged. A 28" wheel will spin at the same speed, which is 5% faster than the 26" one regarding road speed, and a 29" will be faster still. On the road, you can take about 20% off those speeds (-5 mph or -8km/h).
 

carlic

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 7, 2019
5
0
I dont think they are reffering to a no load speed, but actual road speed because they mention it varies a bit with road conditions and weight.

It seems that a 36V 260rpm version could be a good all rounder with speed (346rpm@48V=40kmh) and climbing torque ?
Using 26" that is.