Radio 4 Join the Bike Helmet Debate

[onmebike]

An interesting debate as always and I really do hope it remains up to individuals to decide.

I do / have done four activities where helmets can come into play (ignoring work on construction sites)

Motorcycling - its the law, so always worn one whether its a 3 min journey to the paper shop or a 50 mile trip out in the hills. If it were not the law I`d go without the helmet on short hops about in the dry and daylight, but most likely put it on for longer trips or dark nights and wet roads.

Skiing - bit like cycling - not compulsary, but some snowboarders and skiers are beginning to wear them more often (sometimes as a style item I know) - a similar debate rages about awareness of surroundings and risk taking for the recreational skier - personally never worn a helmet skiing, but put helmets on the kids when they were young and first on the slopes - stopped that as soon as they got better then me, which took about 5 minutes!!

Kayaking - no laws governing what you wear - I enjoy a mixture here of flatter water river touring and adrenalin fueled white water (rapids, gorges and waterfalls). On flat water I tend to just wear a baseball cap to keep the sun off, but as the gradient picks up, the rocks get nearer the surface and the drops get bigger on goes the helmet. The trade of awareness is more than compensated for by surviving bouncing your head off rocks on the river bed and bank - the scrapes and scratches on both my kayak helmets bear testament to the protection I have receieved - without it I would have been unconcious and probably drowned.

Cycling - I have a helmet, but usually dont wear it. It goes on for dark nights, strong winds and wet roads when I percieve the ride is more risky. In daylight, dry conditions and good visibility my personal risk assessment is that Im safer and more comfortable without it.

My conclusion - not every trip, every activity or every day is the same. The levels of protection I use tends to be based on an informed decision about the levels of risk I`m facing. As an adult with reasonable intelligence I really hope the government continues to give me, and all of us, the freedom to continue to exercise that judgement.

All the best and stay safe

Bob_about

Fully agree, self preservation is a matter of individual choice.

 

[Old Timer]

OK, helmets are made of a similar material that they pack around expensive tv sets ect for transit! maybe that could be a clue
QUOTE]

I'm not surprised their packed so well.

Now you`re getting it Tony say after me " Packed so well " as in head packed so well

 

[onmebike]

Now you`re getting it Tony say after me " Packed so well " as in head packed so well

Yes, packed so well for the reasons described. Comparing your head to an inanimate electrical appliance makes me wonder if you should have kept your helmet in its carton while wearing it, for added protection and improved appearance. I can only assume the reason my motorcycle helmet came in a box packed with polystyrene was because it would be easily damaged in transit? Doesn't say much for its ability to protect.

 

[CeeGee]

I`ve had a couple of close passes of late by vans and got to wondering about some sort of horizontal rod sticking out from the rear carrier(something with a nice sharp metal end maybe and a bright coloured flag) What do ya reckon? do they work?

I think you'll find a lot of idiots will be tempted to see just how close they can get to your flag.
A circular saw with a horizontal cut, powered by the bike battery and set at a suitable distance on the off-side of the bike - that may just keep them away.

Colin

 

[allen-uk]

These things are for 'proper' cyclists as well as kids, and they do seem to work (in terms of alerting dozey drivers to your presence and possible wobbles).

BtwinÂ*-Â*Safety lollipopÂ*-Â*BIKES / BICYCLES / CYCLES spare parts rear view mirrorÂ*-Â*Designed for extra visibility when cycling.

A

 

[HittheroadJ]

Ride without a helmet and win your own Darwin Award.....

 

[flecc]

I reckon anyone who doesn`t wear a helmet must have banged their head

So the Dutch who have far more cycling experience than any other nation on earth have all banged their heads?
.

 

[onmebike]

Here's some info that even surprised me. Not entirely up to date but its interesting that cycling rate's among the safest of pastime's. Maybe we should all wear helmets when not cycling.

Comparative risk in cycling

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2005.pdf

 

[Old Timer]

These things are for 'proper' cyclists as well as kids, and they do seem to work (in terms of alerting dozey drivers to your presence and possible wobbles).

BtwinÂ*-Â*Safety lollipopÂ*-Â*BIKES / BICYCLES / CYCLES spare parts rear view mirrorÂ*-Â*Designed for extra visibility when cycling.

A

They might seem a bit sissy but I bet they work. I`ve noticed that nice cars and 4 wheelers pull in when approaching my handlebar mirror

 

[flecc]

Here's some info that even surprised me. Not entirely up to date but its interesting that cycling rate's among the safest of pastime's. Maybe we should all wear helmets when not cycling.

Comparative risk in cycling

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2005.pdf

It's what I keep reminding members, including in this thread, the risks of head injury in cycling are very small, and for sensible adults they are miniscule.

Even if one's objections are only on comfort or appearance, those are perfectly good reasons to not wear a helmet, since one can legitimately conclude that the risk of head injuries is just as great in many other normal day to day activities where helmets are never worn.

A sense of proportion is needed when making such decisions.
.

 

[Old Timer]

Here we go

I agree with most of what Flecc just posted but of course I still reckon that the chance of injury through wearing a helmet is lower than the chance of getting injured not wearing one.

And like most things in life, you pays your money and makes your choice.

 

[allen-uk]

I still reckon that the chance of injury through wearing a helmet is lower than the chance of getting injured not wearing one.

And like most things in life, you pays your money and makes your choice.

The problem, as discussed on the Radio 4 programme that was originally referred to, is broader, unfortunately; it relates to other road users perceptions of the helmet wearers, for example, and the apparent tendency of drivers to see helmeted cyclists as somehow safer than we actually are, and to drive less carefully because of this perception.

The other possible problem is the effect of wearing a helmet on the cyclist's behaviour, which, something like seatbelts or airbags in cars, seems to make the wearer feel safer themselves, and thus to take more chances.

I wish life was easier.

A

 

[flecc]

Here we go

I agree with most of what Flecc just posted but of course I still reckon that the chance of injury through wearing a helmet is lower than the chance of getting injured not wearing one.

And like most things in life, you pays your money and makes your choice.

I fully agree Dave. My point is only that since the risks are so vanishingly small, those who choose not to wear one while cycling should not be referred to in insulting terms as some sort of idiots.

Their choice not to wear is just as rational as not wearing a helmet when running on hard surfaces or climbing a ladder for example, both bringing real risks of accidental head injuries.
.

 

[Old Timer]

I fully agree Dave. My point is only that since the risks are so vanishingly small, those who choose not to wear one while cycling should not be referred to in insulting terms as some sort of idiots.

Their choice not to wear is just as rational as not wearing a helmet when running on hard surfaces or climbing a ladder for example, both bringing real risks of accidental head injuries.
.

I can see the point that a group riding along(maybe on holiday) without any cycling gear or helmets and more so if there are youngsters in the group do make me sit up and take a touch more notice where as a hardened looking cyclist is expected to be aware that I`m behind.

I think that I look back at when I was young and fearless and had a number of near scrapes with grazes on my head and face that makes me reach for my helmet when I go out.

and BTW That entry of mine about "must have banged their heads " was meant as a joke and not a p*** take Tony.

 

[NRG]

First time out wearing a helmet and I have my closest encounter yet! How the idiot didn't manage to hit me is a miracle...I think I'm going to give this up for a while.

 

[John L]

First time out wearing a helmet and I have my closest encounter yet! How the idiot didn't manage to hit me is a miracle...I think I'm going to give this up for a while.

Glad your ok and I hope the incident doesn't keep you from your bike too long.

For the last few days I've left the helmet at home so I can enjoy the last of the sunshine. I love the feeling of the wind thru my hair (not so much hair anymore but still ). However, all the hype about wearing a helmet has stuck and I've been conscious of a need to be extra careful. In the back of my mind there is a niggle that maybe a helmet would do a job in the case of a fall (especially when flying down a hill at close on 30mph) as opposed to a tangle with a truck etc..

So I'm still a bit on the fence. But I'll probably wear one during the winter.

John

 

[thunderblue]

My son has had a couple of incidents like this - once when the mudguard fixing broke and he came off, breaking his wrist, and another when a pick-up truck didn't see him and turned across his path, driving over his leg. On both occasions his helmet split, but his head was fine. I agree though, it is personal choice, and on a different day and time, either wearing one or not wearing one would be the best option. Perhaps it's all down to skill, defensive riding and a bit of luck .... so hope you all ride lucky!

 

[onmebike]

The idea that motorist's give non helmet user's more clearance has me wondering, is there's more to this than meets the eye?
I have no doubt there is a section of the motoring public whom share an intense dislike for cyclist's, especially those they term the helmet and lycra brigade. They see them as a bunch of whinger's that will never be satisfied until the country is criss crossed with cycle track's and the motorist banned from all city centre's. Another gripe being those whinger's never contribute towards the system they demand, or so it may appear to some motorist's.
I'm sure we've all witnessed the arrogant cyclist's that abuse the laws of the road or ride two abreast causing traffic to wait, not so patiently behind them.
Hardly surprising that some cyclist's are regarded with such contempt by motorist's?
Are motorists making some kind of point by passing so closely to those helmet'd or lycra clad cyclist's they persieve to be the cycling elite and therefore the whinger's whom would have them banned from the road's?
Just a thought.

 

[allen-uk]

Are motorists making some kind of point by passing so closely to those helmeted or lycra-clad cyclists they persieve to be the cycling elite and therefore the whingers whom would have them banned from the roads?
Just a thought.

Wouldn't argue too strongly against that thought myself, onmebike.

Be a bit difficult to carry out scientific studies on the road, but it might be one for the road-test labs, where they put various drivers into simulators and see how they perform in different 'road' conditions. Maybe they should include cyclists more on the simulations, and see how different drivers react to them (helmeted or not).

A

 

[Jimod]

Ride without a helmet and win your own Darwin Award.....

I'm not too sure what Darwin has to do with wearing a helmet. He's very often mis-quoted on forums.
It's each person's personal choice on whether to wear a helmet or not.