Raleigh Panasonic Bikes

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,253
3,197
A few day ago, purely by chance, I happened to meet someone from Raleigh UK product support. He told me that Raleigh UK will be distributing and supporting a range of Panasonic powered bikes in the near future. All will be branded as Raleigh, but imported from Germany. I didn't get chance to interrogate him further as I had to leave in a hurry.

Does anyone know anything about this? Do you think that they will be Kalkhoffs with Raleigh stickers on them?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,559
30,848
In effect yes, but really they are Derby Cycles of Germany's bikes, badged either as Kalkhoff or Raleigh, but this Raleigh name is theirs since they own Raleigh gmbh, separate from Raleigh UK.

It's all very complicated, since Derby Cycles was once owned by Raleigh UK, but they sold it into German ownership, and it's done extremely well and much better ever since. They've bought many small German bike makes and names from the past and badge in various ways. Most of their production is normal bikes of course, well over 100,000 a year at present.

The bikes are:

Kalkhoff Agattu = Raleigh Leicester

Kalkhoff Tasman = Raleigh Leicester de Luxe

Kalkhoff Pro Connect = Raleigh Dover
.
 
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oriteroom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 13, 2008
297
110
The Bike shop in Brockenhurst in the New Forest had one in at least a couple of months ago. Quite similar to Kalkoff (cannot remember price tho' but I think not that much different from Kalkoff).

Mike
 

lectureral

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 30, 2007
397
60
Suva, Fiji
I have a Raleigh Leicester de Luxe - I think it is pretty much the same as the equivalent Kalkhoff Tasman - for some reason they sold under the Raleigh name in Switzerland but when my supplier couldn't get them I suggested he order Kalkhoffs instead and so he now does both.

No idea why Derby Cycles uses different names but maybe the same reason P&G and Unilever sell lots of different brands of soap powder (although the position seems very different to me).
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,559
30,848
No idea why Derby Cycles uses different names but maybe the same reason P&G and Unilever sell lots of different brands of soap powder (although the position seems very different to me).
As I said above, they use a wide range of names, some purely historic ones revived. This is undoubtedly for the usual marketing advantage of obtaining a higher overall proportion of the market, though as said, in many places the position is different at present. Not in all countries though, they have more than one name on their German market, and it should be remembered they mainly make normal bikes. The Agattu and Pro Connect are also normal bikes which pre-existed the e-versions, and its in their much larger normal bike market that the marketing advantage is mainly realised.

The badge versions are effectively identical as I've indicated in my first reply, but for component supply reasons, some parts may vary slightly, tyre or rim brand for example.
.
 
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Lloyd

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
166
0
A few day ago, purely by chance, I happened to meet someone from Raleigh UK product support. He told me that Raleigh UK will be distributing and supporting a range of Panasonic powered bikes in the near future. All will be branded as Raleigh, but imported from Germany. I didn't get chance to interrogate him further as I had to leave in a hurry.

Does anyone know anything about this? Do you think that they will be Kalkhoffs with Raleigh stickers on them?
No need to interrogate him further, it's all here;

Raleigh dips into high-end electrics | Bicycle business | News by BikeBiz

Since joining Raleigh in January, I have been busy setting up and training a national dealer network. The aim is to cover most parts of the UK with approved Raleigh e-bike service centres. These centres will not only have the bikes in store for people to try, but they will have technical staff trained to work on and service the Raleigh range of e-bikes. These will not be just Raleigh dealers with an e-bike in the corner, these will be specialist stores, some of which support other electric brands.

Hopefully soon, the days will be gone where independant dealers are ignorant/anti e-bikes, and already the response from dealers has been very positive indeed.

The Raleigh range of e-bikes will be expanded on also, with the addition of a totally new model later this year. We are working on something new, designed from the ground up especially for the UK market, and of course I will keep the forum informed of ay developments. Infact Tillson, I regularly go for test rides in your neck of the woods (just down the road from Raleigh HQ) so if you see a stealth black e-bike flying along it might just well be a prototype ;)

There will be a Raleigh e-bike website coming soon, along with an official launch press release and much, much more info, but I simply just couldn't keep my mouth shut until then :D
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,253
3,197
Thanks for the update Lloyd. A trained national dealer network can only be a good thing and the continued expansion in the use of the Panasonic system gives confidence that it will be supported into the future.

I will indeed keep a look out for you. Are you based along side the A610? I ride through Heanor and Codnor most days on my way up to Ripley so I may well see you.

Regards

Tom
 

Lloyd

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
166
0
That is my sentiments exactly. The 2 main emphasis are on support and try before you buy.

I am based at the A610 site yes, so if you see me around feel free to shout (nice things of course :p).
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,559
30,848
Excellent news Lloyd, I look forward to the further news and developments.
.
 

alex_h

Pedelecer
Dec 28, 2009
197
4
great news

excellent news indeed, more ebikes on the market = more choice to us consumers which I'm very pleased with. Knowing the fact that Ral.. come from the same factory as Kalkhoff i assume these will be a decent quality unlike some other chinese made brands.

Can you tell us what price tags these will have. if these go through dealers then might work out more than Kalkhoffs which are already quite expensive.
 

Old Timer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 5, 2009
1,279
12
Obviously crank driven systems differ from wheel hub systems and looking at the distance figures in the three power levels it looks very attractive.Having now had a reasonable amount of experience with normal hub systems I can see how drive through gears might be something worth a look at.

Q. so can a 26V in a crank system match 36V in a hub system? I`m basing my concerns on the difference between our 24V hub vs 36V hubs.

Thanks
 

alex_h

Pedelecer
Dec 28, 2009
197
4
yes Dave, it looks like crank drives are more efficent because they use the rear gears to moderate the torque and on the sharp hills they simply have kind of gearbox unlike hub motors that are fixed and can only ajust power through applying more current.

Overall i still prefer the hub motors for some reason, don't know why
 

Lloyd

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
166
0
Hi Alex_h and Old Timer.

I have worked with both crank and hub systems over the years, and the easiest way to sum it up is efficiency. Crank motor drive systems are much more efficient than any hub system, hence they don't need 36v batteries. It is also the main reason for the batteries lasting longer. If you run a data analyst on the discharge rates of each system it shows that most hub systems have massive peaks and troughs, as the rpm of the motor changes with varying terrain. This puts a strain on the battery if the capacity isn't sufficient enough.

Run the same analyst on a crank drive unit, and you will see a much more even dishcarge rate, due to the motor rpm remaining more constant over varied terrain, as it drives through the bikes actual gears. So you go up a hill, change gear and the motor rpm stays the same, putting the battery under much less strain.

I have tested a lot of bikes, many of them hub motors, and yes the 26v systems just don't seem to cut it. On a crank drive however, it is more than enough, and ultimately results in a smaller, lighter, longer lasting battery. There simply is no need to run 36v on a crank drive.

Alex_h the retail on the Dover Deluxe Premium is £1799, and you are right it does cost more to supply through a retail network. We looked at distributing directly, but decided that the benefits of having a trained dealer network far outweighed the cost implications. The bike is manufactured at the Derby Cycle Werke plant in Germany, and is typical of their build quality standards. The bike comes off the back of it's success in mainland Europe, where Raleigh Germany are selling 35000-40000 a year :eek: with an excellent reputation.
 

thingaby

Pedelecer
Jun 20, 2008
54
0
If you are still in development please put a throttle on the UK bikes. After 18 months of riding pedelec only I'm amazed how switching to throttle control has improved the quality of my riding experience.
 

Lloyd

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
166
0
We are just about still in development, and did look at a throttle option. The problem is the impending law changes associated with EN15194. I have just received a copy of the standard in it's entirety, and it does clearly state that you cannot have power under motor use only.

The good thing about the EN15194 is that the tolerances for pedelec sensors is vigourously tested. This means that control of the bike should be much more precise, and will make manufacturers use higher quality sensors in the first place. My pet hate with most pedelec sensors is the delay in applying or cutting the power. This is what is being strictly tested for a bike to adhere to EN15194.

This means we should see less of the magnet-type speed sensors and more torque sensors such as TMM4 and Panasonic's own, which I'm sure anyone who has ridden one will vouch for the ride quality.
 

thingaby

Pedelecer
Jun 20, 2008
54
0
Fair enough (and thanks for the serious reply). The critical bit for me as my fitness levels have improved is that I want to ride under my own steam most of the time and receive assistance for a only a few seconds every now and again. You can probably achieve a lot of what I get from the throttle with an easily accessible on/off switch.
atb steve
 

Blew it

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2008
1,472
97
Swindon, Wiltshire
There is provision within EN15194 for the use of independant throttle control, up to a maximum 6 kph. Usually referred to as a 'walk-alongside' facility. This is available as a retro-fit to any Panasonic powered machine.

As an older rider with one very dodgy leg, there are times when I have to dismount and walk the machine up very steep hills. Even then, if no independant motor control is available to at least allow the machine to pull it's own weight up the hill, I might have to turn around and go back down the hill.

If importers were to make clear the use of throttle control within EN15194, it might go a little way to weaning us Brits off our beloved throttles!.

I am just waiting for Yamaha to introduce a similar option on their crank-drive unit, when they do, I will purchase a Gepida Surmium. It appears to be a great bike for trail riding.
 

Lloyd

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
166
0
That's a good point Blew-it, I will certainly look into introducing the thumb throttle to dealers later this year.