Remove 15mph speed limiter

[brugospals]

Thanks, I understand.

I will source the resistor, follow your directions, and will report back once I have some results!

I'm going away for a week today though but will do this as soon as I get back!

 

[brugospals]

I've thought about this some more whilst I've been away, and will hold off with any modifications - at least until after the guarantee on the bike runs out... just in case! But thanks so much for your help and ideas - I will return to this thread in the future!

 

[Tedvin]

As far as I can see, there's nothing connected to DSM, so the idea is to short it to ground. If you put a 1K resistor between them, it''ll give an extra level of protection. You can buy a 1/4W 1K resistor for nearly nothing from an electronics supplier.

With everything open and switched on, get a friend to hold the wheel off the ground and spin the motor up to the maximum with the throttle or PAS. While it's running at full speed, touch one end of the resistor to ground and the other to DSM and any other likely data pads to see if the motor increases in speed.

Hello there! I just signed up on pedelec solely för the purpose of this thread. I, just like brugospals, have än ecoride and än identical controller. This 25 kmh pulsing drives me crazy on my Daily 42 km bike ridning. I read through the thread with excitement, only to find that a solution wasnt in Place yet. I tried shorting Every suspicious connector like suggested. Unfortunately None of them gave the desired effect . Is there anything else you or someone else with more experience than me can think of? I can add that ecoride use the same controller för all their bikes regardless of wheel size, so the limit shouldnt be because of rpm. Any help apreciated, thanks in advance.

 

[brugospals]

Hi Tedvin,

Glad to hear I'm not the only one going crazy due to the pulsing! I previously owned an Ecoride City from 2013, and the controller on that didn't seem to limit at 25km/h when the battery was fully charged. It gave assistance pretty much up to about 30km/h and tapered off: no pulsing.

That bike got stolen, so I was quite surprised at the difference between that and the 2014 Ecoride City. I asked the shop in Gothenburg about it, but they said they had had to make some changes to the controller to better comply in with Swedish law. I asked them if it is possible to remove the limiter, but they said no. Of course, they aren't going to give the answers away, probably due to legal restrictions.

If you, or someone else manages to solve the issue, please post back here - removing that limiter would make things much smoother... and faster

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You need a new controller. They don't cost much. Some might be too big to fit in the compartment. What is the size of your ones?

 

[Tedvin]

Hi Tedvin,

Glad to hear I'm not the only one going crazy due to the pulsing! I previously owned an Ecoride City from 2013, and the controller on that didn't seem to limit at 25km/h when the battery was fully charged. It gave assistance pretty much up to about 30km/h and tapered off: no pulsing.

That bike got stolen, so I was quite surprised at the difference between that and the 2014 Ecoride City. I asked the shop in Gothenburg about it, but they said they had had to make some changes to the controller to better comply in with Swedish law. I asked them if it is possible to remove the limiter, but they said no. Of course, they aren't going to give the answers away, probably due to legal restrictions.

If you, or someone else manages to solve the issue, please post back here - removing that limiter would make things much smoother... and faster

Interesting about the 2013 model controller. That sounds exactly like how I want it to work. I've got the Urban8 from 2014. I'm sorry about the stolen bike, though I wonder, did it's controller have the same connectors and functions? I'm thinking ecocide possibly keep spares from older models, so perhaps one of the older controllers could be bought from them. If not, maybe they could point us in the right direction towards the seller of those controllers

 

[Tedvin]

You need a new controller. They don't cost much. Some might be too big to fit in the compartment. What is the size of your ones?

Thank you for the reply. Yep, that's the trouble. I measured my box to 95x50x30mm. It's really tiny. It also has different connectors than other more common controllers i've seen on here and endless-sphere. Do you know of any good places to look for controllers?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

How tight is the controller in the compartment? The KU65 and S06P from BMSBattery are just a couple of mm bigger. It looks like your motor is sensorless. Is that correct?

 

[Tedvin]

How tight is the controller in the compartment? The KU65 and S06P from BMSBattery are just a couple of mm bigger. It looks like your motor is sensorless. Is that correct?

Well, it's quite tight, but the measurements of both KU 63/65 (http://www.bmsbattery.com/controller/692-hall-sensorsensorless-250watts-brushless-hub-motor-controller.html) and the S06P (http://www.bmsbattery.com/controller/545-s06-250w-imitation-torque-square-wave-controller.html) should be able to fit.

As to whether my motor is sensorless or not: Does this refer to if there are hall sensors or not? On my present controller I have 3 thin wires (blue green yellow) labeled H1, H2 and H3, which run from the controller to the motor along with 3 thicker wires. Does this mean my motor is in fact sensored?

I'm sorry that my knowledge in this area is a bit thin. However, thank you for taking the time and helping out d8veh, it's much appreciated

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You need five wires for three hall sensors in the motor. There has to be red and black too., so are there at least eight wires altogether. Sensored/sensorless means with/without hall sensors.

If you have a sensored motor, you can use the S06S as well.

 

[Tedvin]

You need five wires for three hall sensors in the motor. There has to be red and black too., so are there at least eight wires altogether. Sensored/sensorless means with/without hall sensors.

If you have a sensored motor, you can use the S06S as well.

Yes, at a closer look there is just like you say also the red and black wire.

Ok, so the S06S seems to be a nice controller with the "torque imitation". However, I'm wondering how that controller will work together with my display/control panel. My present one looks like this http://store.ecoride.se/cykeltillbehor/182-kontrollenhet-activedrive.html. Will I still be able to use the same panel?

Does the controller have the possibility to connect my lights aswell or do I have to come up with some other solution for the lights? And just to be clear, neither of S06S or KU65 has a speed limiter? It's tempting to buy one and try it out, as soon as I get your reply regarding the control panel

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The BMSBattery controllers don't have wires for lights. You'd have to chuck your control panel and get a nice LCD instead. It'll probably work with the KU63, but would need a 4-pin connector.

 

[Tedvin]

The BMSBattery controllers don't have wires for lights. You'd have to chuck your control panel and get a nice LCD instead. It'll probably work with the KU63, but would need a 4-pin connector.

Thanks for all of your help. So right now I'm thinking of getting a S06S along with S-LCD3 from BMSBattery. My lights run off 36V so I'll just connect them to the wires coming from the battery and add a separate on/off-switch for them. Does all of this seem like a good solution?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That's what I'd do. You'll probably have to do a bit of wiring, changing over connectors etc. It might be also an idea to get one of their pedal sensors just to make sure it's compatible. They're cheap enough. And you get the chance to change your throttle to a different type or add one if you don't already have one.

 

[Tedvin]

That's what I'd do. You'll probably have to do a bit of wiring, changing over connectors etc. It might be also an idea to get one of their pedal sensors just to make sure it's compatible. They're cheap enough. And you get the chance to change your throttle to a different type or add one if you don't already have one.

I added a PAS and have placed my order. What a project this turned into, can't keep my hands away from tinkering

Cheers d8veh!

 

[Tedvin]

That's what I'd do. You'll probably have to do a bit of wiring, changing over connectors etc. It might be also an idea to get one of their pedal sensors just to make sure it's compatible. They're cheap enough. And you get the chance to change your throttle to a different type or add one if you don't already have one.

Hello again d8veh.

I'm afraid I didn't think this through enough, and I'm hoping you can help out. The main purpose of getting new equipment is to increase the speed of which I will be able to cruise with moderate pedaling. As of now my motor stops assisting at 25 kph, which means my speed is about 24-27 kph with the motor pulsing on and off when pedaling moderatly.

So far an S06S along with S-LCD3 has been determined. However, I think my motor might also be a limiting factor for the speed, but want to figure out for sure. I've read that if the no-load speed differs (about 10%) with fully charged/uncharged battery then the motors rpm is limiting the top speed. I've also read that if the system doesn't "pulse" (kick in and out) when lifting the tyre and holding the gas, the motor is doing as many rpm's as it can with that voltage.

On my bike the speed isn't lower when my battery level is low, it just get's less torque which suggest it could be spinning faster before reaching maximum rpm for that voltage. Although, when I lift the tyre and give full gas it doesn't pulse but rather keeps a stable 25 kph which suggest it does as many rpm's as it possibly can with that voltage. Obviously one of the facts aren't true since its contradictory. Could you help me straightening out the facts here? Do I need a different motor along with my S06S to increase the top speed?

If I in fact should get a new motor, I've been looking at the BPM2 36V350W with 328 rpm. My wheel size is 28x1,75. I'm riding mostly a more or less flat surface although sometimes quite windy since its open fields and along coastline. Also I'm quite lightweight, me + bike + battery weighs in around 90 kg. Would the BPM2 36V350W work well together with the S06S although that controller is rated at 250W? Does this seem like a good option to drastically increase my speed with moderate pedaling?

Sorry for long post, thank you for taking the time.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I would say that you speed is limited. You won't know the max speed until you delimit.

The BPM is a much bigger more powerful motor. A 328 rpm one will max out your controller at virtually every speed you travel, so the controller will soon overheat and probably pop. You have to match all the components in your system with each other, and to the speed you want to go. It's very complicated until you get your head around how they all work together. I'll try and explain:

The motor tries to draw the maximum current allowed at low speed, but as it speeds up, it generates volts that oppose the battery volts, so at high speed, the current goes down until it reaches zero at maximum RPM. If you have a low current controller, the controller will be maxed out throughout the speed range, but if you have a higher current controller, the point at which the motor can't take the maximum current happens at a lower speed. Use the simulator below to play about with different controllers to see what happens. If you look at the red line, it has a kink in it. That's the point at which the current from the motor starts to decrease from the maximum allowed.

http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

To run a 328 rpm motor, you need about 30A at 36v to get it up to near it's maximum speed and a battery that can provide it.

To summarise, if you want to go over 20 mph, you need a 22A controller, motor around 260 rpm and a battery that can give 20A continuous. For 25 mph, you need a 30A controller and a battery that can give over 25A continuous.

 

[Tedvin]

I would say that you speed is limited. You won't know the max speed until you delimit.

The BPM is a much bigger more powerful motor. A 328 rpm one will max out your controller at virtually every speed you travel, so the controller will soon overheat and probably pop. You have to match all the components in your system with each other, and to the speed you want to go. It's very complicated until you get your head around how they all work together. I'll try and explain:

The motor tries to draw the maximum current allowed at low speed, but as it speeds up, it generates volts that oppose the battery volts, so at high speed, the current goes down until it reaches zero at maximum RPM. If you have a low current controller, the controller will be maxed out throughout the speed range, but if you have a higher current controller, the point at which the motor can't take the maximum current happens at a lower speed. Use the simulator below to play about with different controllers to see what happens. If you look at the red line, it has a kink in it. That's the point at which the current from the motor starts to decrease from the maximum allowed.

http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

To run a 328 rpm motor, you need about 30A at 36v to get it up to near it's maximum speed and a battery that can provide it.

To summarise, if you want to go over 20 mph, you need a 22A controller, motor around 260 rpm and a battery that can give 20A continuous. For 25 mph, you need a 30A controller and a battery that can give over 25A continuous.

I see, thank you for the explanation, my vision gets clearer for every day passing . Yes there is definitely more to it than one initially thinks.

Unfortunately I simply don't have room for a bigger controller than S06S or KU63/65 without making major modifications. I don't want my bike looking too much like a DIY-project either.

However, from reading in the S-LCD3 manual I see that there is a feature for reducing the maximum current which the controller lets the motor draw. At highest setting it reduces current by 5 amps from the controllers maximum, which for the S06S would be 14-5=9A. With 36V system this makes for a power slightly above the controllers rated 250W. So my questions here are: Does this current-reducing feature of the S-LCD3 work with S06S controller? If it indeed does, this slight "overpower" shouldn't be impossible to handle over-heat wise, right? Perhaps with minor modifications like changing the thermal paste to something better (got loads of qualitative stuff of this since I'm building PC's).

I've been trying out the simulator you linked, really nice tool. From the drop down menus I chose the Bafang BPM motor, 36V 14Ah eZee LiMn (the battery i use is actually a 36V 13,5 Ah Li-ion). As for the controller I chose a custom 9 A 0.1 Ohm. (As for the resistance, I have no idea, is this a reasonable approximate value?) The resulting graphs are quite interesting. It presents 30 kph with electric power alone. My interpretation is that after reaching the vertical line, the difference between red and black presents how much power I must add from physically pedaling to reach that speed, assuming the motor doesn't generate more volts than the battery outputs in that specific speed/rpm. Considering my speed without e-bike help is about 22 kph I probably usually add about 120W by pedaling. Adding this to the electric performance makes my real life speed approximately 35 kph with this setup.

If these figures were to be even somewhat close to reality, I'd be more than happy with the performance. So as I see it this all comes down to the following question: Are there any major down sides of limiting the current to only 9 amps to the BPM2 motor which really could handle a lot more? (Other than the obvious that the torque gets limited by limiting the current). Does it somehow damage the motor to not let it "stretch its legs"?

If there are any weird assumptions I've made or maybe something else I haven't though of, please point them out, I'm happy to learn more about this

 

[Deleted member 4366]

A BPM at 9A would be gutless. You'd get a lot less torque than you already have. The simulator seems to have bugs. When I select a 9A controller, it says the current is 25.5A at 30 km/h. If you select a 10A controller it improves but gives motor amps 13.3 at 30km/h but only 11A from the battery. I guess it doesn't work for low currents. I can tell you though that 9A wouldn't get you an efficiency over 60% with that motor, so about 216w maximum output (9A x 40V x .6), which will get you to about 13 mph without pedalling in ideal conditions. Throw in a bit of wind and the speed will drop further, which takes the efficiency down further, so you lose power. Add in an incline and the motor will stall out. Compare that with your present system that can output a maximum of about 480W. Trust me, a BPM should be run at 20 to 22 amps.. The 328 rpm BPM is too fast for a bike with 26" wheels. If you want one that fast in 26" wheels, you need 30A at 36v, which means the 500W version.

 

[Wheazel]

Also registered for this thread as I am experiencing the same pulsing. Its actually my wifes bike, but she wouldnt say no to less pulsing and slightly higher topspeed.

Did you guys determine that the stock controller cant be modified? I have a hard time believing that, but I am no electronics engineer myself. I am not very fond of replacing the controller as it is a fully functional unit. I am however capable with the multimeter and soldering iron. Two custom ebike builds under my belt. Including 18650 battery builds and custom welded frames.

What is likely causing the limit?

Is it likely that I could present some more information (as in taking pictures or doing tests) about the controller that could lead to a breakthrough on how to modify it? I have done reflashing of brushless escs for multicopters before, maybe something similar could be done? I dont have the knowledge of the programming itself tho. Im suspecting there are more ecoride owners that have seen this thread just to find it "incomplete".

Best regards from Sweden