Replacement for Kalkhoff Agattu?

danfoto

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 2, 2010
395
33
Sarfeast England
My 2011 Agattu is now getting well past its best before, so I need to start considering its replacement. My brain won't cope with any more random online searching, so I'd appreciate suggestions please bearing in mind the following ...

I'm in my 70s, relatively fit considering, and having long ago given up the motor car, I'm used to cycling everywhere as a means of everyday transport as well as leisure. All that usually stops me is snow and ice. Height 1.8m, weight 80kg, inleg 80cm.

I hardly ever go off road, but It's really quite hilly round here and I occasionally need to tow a well-loaded (eg bale of straw) Carry Freedom trailer. I don't want to go to a bike shop for the next bike, having been very happy with both the Kalkhoff and my Thorn Sherpa being ordered online and delivered by courier.

As regards the bike itself, a realistic 20-25 mile range (without trailer) will do me. I'd rather have disc brakes or vee's rather than Magura hydraulics, simply because it's a PITA changing blocks on the the Maguras. I want an upright riding position, by which I mean bars at the very least 10cm higher than saddle nose. That's primarliy to minimise loading on my arthritic wrist, but also to avoid the repeat of an earlier back issue. Front suspension is essential to avoid shocks to my wrists but I'm happy with a sprung seatpost at the back. I need full mudguards and a strong rear carrier. Dynamo lighting would be nice, but the only other must-have is puncture-resistant tyres - either Schwalbe Marathon Plus, or equivalent.

Finally, the Kalkhoff's been totally reliable since the day I got it, and apart from brake blocks has only needed a couple of new sprockets and a chain. It's never once let me down. A similar standard of design and build would be good, but without it costing the earth.

And yes, I do know that you get what you pay for and that quality doesn't come cheap, but speed, street cred, and gimmicks are irrelevant. It doesn't matter to me what it looks like: it's comfort and above all reliablility that I need. It's all about putting off the dread day when I have to trade in my bikes for a mobility scooter ...
 

Linoleum Bonypart

Finding my (electric) wheels
Aug 17, 2019
7
2
My 2011 Agattu is now getting well past its best before, so I need to start considering its replacement. My brain won't cope with any more random online searching, so I'd appreciate suggestions please bearing in mind the following ...

I'm in my 70s, relatively fit considering, and having long ago given up the motor car, I'm used to cycling everywhere as a means of everyday transport as well as leisure. All that usually stops me is snow and ice. Height 1.8m, weight 80kg, inleg 80cm.

I hardly ever go off road, but It's really quite hilly round here and I occasionally need to tow a well-loaded (eg bale of straw) Carry Freedom trailer. I don't want to go to a bike shop for the next bike, having been very happy with both the Kalkhoff and my Thorn Sherpa being ordered online and delivered by courier.

As regards the bike itself, a realistic 20-25 mile range (without trailer) will do me. I'd rather have disc brakes or vee's rather than Magura hydraulics, simply because it's a PITA changing blocks on the the Maguras. I want an upright riding position, by which I mean bars at the very least 10cm higher than saddle nose. That's primarliy to minimise loading on my arthritic wrist, but also to avoid the repeat of an earlier back issue. Front suspension is essential to avoid shocks to my wrists but I'm happy with a sprung seatpost at the back. I need full mudguards and a strong rear carrier. Dynamo lighting would be nice, but the only other must-have is puncture-resistant tyres - either Schwalbe Marathon Plus, or equivalent.

Finally, the Kalkhoff's been totally reliable since the day I got it, and apart from brake blocks has only needed a couple of new sprockets and a chain. It's never once let me down. A similar standard of design and build would be good, but without it costing the earth.

And yes, I do know that you get what you pay for and that quality doesn't come cheap, but speed, street cred, and gimmicks are irrelevant. It doesn't matter to me what it looks like: it's comfort and above all reliablility that I need. It's all about putting off the dread day when I have to trade in my bikes for a mobility scooter ...
 

Swizz

Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2017
211
161
48
Sk14
My 2011 Agattu is now getting well past its best before, so I need to start considering its replacement. My brain won't cope with any more random online searching, so I'd appreciate suggestions please bearing in mind the following ...

I'm in my 70s, relatively fit considering, and having long ago given up the motor car, I'm used to cycling everywhere as a means of everyday transport as well as leisure. All that usually stops me is snow and ice. Height 1.8m, weight 80kg, inleg 80cm.

I hardly ever go off road, but It's really quite hilly round here and I occasionally need to tow a well-loaded (eg bale of straw) Carry Freedom trailer. I don't want to go to a bike shop for the next bike, having been very happy with both the Kalkhoff and my Thorn Sherpa being ordered online and delivered by courier.

As regards the bike itself, a realistic 20-25 mile range (without trailer) will do me. I'd rather have disc brakes or vee's rather than Magura hydraulics, simply because it's a PITA changing blocks on the the Maguras. I want an upright riding position, by which I mean bars at the very least 10cm higher than saddle nose. That's primarliy to minimise loading on my arthritic wrist, but also to avoid the repeat of an earlier back issue. Front suspension is essential to avoid shocks to my wrists but I'm happy with a sprung seatpost at the back. I need full mudguards and a strong rear carrier. Dynamo lighting would be nice, but the only other must-have is puncture-resistant tyres - either Schwalbe Marathon Plus, or equivalent.

Finally, the Kalkhoff's been totally reliable since the day I got it, and apart from brake blocks has only needed a couple of new sprockets and a chain. It's never once let me down. A similar standard of design and build would be good, but without it costing the earth.

And yes, I do know that you get what you pay for and that quality doesn't come cheap, but speed, street cred, and gimmicks are irrelevant. It doesn't matter to me what it looks like: it's comfort and above all reliablility that I need. It's all about putting off the dread day when I have to trade in my bikes for a mobility scooter ...
A friend has a Ridgeback Electron that rides nice with Shimano Steps mid drive, step thru frame and disk brakes. It would need some north road handlebars and a taller stem for your desired riding position though.

What about Gazelle or Batavus bikes? Most of theirs have your riding position, front suspension/seat post and being Dutch are all about everyday use & reliability.
 
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Jonah

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 23, 2010
882
246
EX38
My 2011 Agattu is now getting well past its best before, so I need to start considering its replacement. My brain won't cope with any more random online searching, so I'd appreciate suggestions please bearing in mind the following ...

I'm in my 70s, relatively fit considering, and having long ago given up the motor car, I'm used to cycling everywhere as a means of everyday transport as well as leisure. All that usually stops me is snow and ice. Height 1.8m, weight 80kg, inleg 80cm.

I hardly ever go off road, but It's really quite hilly round here and I occasionally need to tow a well-loaded (eg bale of straw) Carry Freedom trailer. I don't want to go to a bike shop for the next bike, having been very happy with both the Kalkhoff and my Thorn Sherpa being ordered online and delivered by courier.

As regards the bike itself, a realistic 20-25 mile range (without trailer) will do me. I'd rather have disc brakes or vee's rather than Magura hydraulics, simply because it's a PITA changing blocks on the the Maguras. I want an upright riding position, by which I mean bars at the very least 10cm higher than saddle nose. That's primarliy to minimise loading on my arthritic wrist, but also to avoid the repeat of an earlier back issue. Front suspension is essential to avoid shocks to my wrists but I'm happy with a sprung seatpost at the back. I need full mudguards and a strong rear carrier. Dynamo lighting would be nice, but the only other must-have is puncture-resistant tyres - either Schwalbe Marathon Plus, or equivalent.

Finally, the Kalkhoff's been totally reliable since the day I got it, and apart from brake blocks has only needed a couple of new sprockets and a chain. It's never once let me down. A similar standard of design and build would be good, but without it costing the earth.

And yes, I do know that you get what you pay for and that quality doesn't come cheap, but speed, street cred, and gimmicks are irrelevant. It doesn't matter to me what it looks like: it's comfort and above all reliablility that I need. It's all about putting off the dread day when I have to trade in my bikes for a mobility scooter ...
Have you looked at the new Wisper Wayfarer which should be arriving soon?

Or the Woosh Rambla
 

danfoto

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 2, 2010
395
33
Sarfeast England
Thanks folks. Keep 'em coming :)

At very first glance, Batavus seem to make the sort of thing I'm after, although I don't know if roller brakes are a plus or a minus for me - my only experience of them was on a Workscycles FR8 that we briefly owned a few years ago. Need to think about that.

Woosh Rambla seems to tick all the boxes, so I certainly need to look closer at that one ...
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,803
30,375
At very first glance, Batavus seem to make the sort of thing I'm after, although I don't know if roller brakes are a plus or a minus for me - my only experience of them was on a Workscycles FR8 that we briefly owned a few years ago. Need to think about that.
Be wary of the Dutch makes like Batavus, Gazelle, Sparta, Koga etc, although very good in many ways, designed for their very flat country they often have poor hill climbing performance. It's why very few of them are seen here.
.
 
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Swizz

Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2017
211
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Sk14
Be wary of the Dutch makes like Batavus, Gazelle, Sparta, Koga etc, although very good in many ways, designed for their very flat country they often have poor hill climbing performance. It's why very few of them are seen here.
.
All down to gearing I would say. On my old Gazelle with a Sturmey hub gear I just fitted a larger sprocket. On anything with one of the 7/8/9 speed hub gears or with derailleur gearing they won't be any different to other bikes available over here - their drivetrains are the same off the shelf parts. Few are seen here due to decades of mudguards being uncool and cycling being promoted as a hunched over the handlebars sport, rather than as a mode of transport.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,803
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All down to gearing I would say. On my old Gazelle with a Sturmey hub gear I just fitted a larger sprocket. On anything with one of the 7/8/9 speed hub gears or with derailleur gearing they won't be any different to other bikes available over here - their drivetrains are the same off the shelf parts.
Not so I'm afraid. There was one exception, the Panasonic crank motored Gazelle from 2007 for a while, but they soon dropped that and adopted a moderate front hub motor. Many Dutch built e-bikes have moderate power or weak hub motors which don't perform well in hilly areas like Danfoto's so would be a poor choice for them.

Some have been pathetic, when they first sent the Sparta Ion model here it was laughed off the market and withdrawn since it was so useless on hills. Since then it's had two boosts in torque but is still rarely seen here since it's still average at best.

A pity in a way since with its very refined rear hub motor it's a good choice in our flatter areas like the Eastern Counties, but not one for the northern peaks.

Your last sentence is a repeat of what I've posted in here for many years, I also disapprove of the British sport biased attitude to cycling and say the Dutch have it right.
.
 
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Swizz

Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2017
211
161
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Sk14
Not so I'm afraid. There was one exception, the Panasonic crank motored Gazelle from 2007 for a while, but they soon dropped that and adopted a moderate front hub motor. Many Dutch built e-bikes have moderate power or weak hub motors which don't perform well in hilly areas like Danfoto's so would be a poor choice for them.

Some have been pathetic, when they first sent the Sparta Ion model here it was laughed off the market and withdrawn since it was so useless on hills. Since then it's had two boosts in torque but is still rarely seen here since it's still average at best.

A pity in a way since with its very refined rear hub motor it's a good choice in our flatter areas like the Eastern Counties, but not one for the northern peaks.

Your last sentence is a repeat of what I've posted in here for many years, I also disapprove of the British sport biased attitude to cycling and say the Dutch have it right.
.
Have just had a look at Batavus & Gazelles websites - they seem to be pushing more mid drives now rather than hubs & are quoting 50nm of torque? Gazelle have both Bosch & Shimano equipped bikes. The Steps motor in my friends Ridgeback is only 40nm of torque and that feels perky enough?
 

danfoto

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 2, 2010
395
33
Sarfeast England
Cheers folks. Hi there Flecc. I was hoping you were still around here ... :)

Points noted about the Batavus. However, one of their Cortina range seems to tick all the right boxes, so right now the two big questions centre round buying direct from Hollandbikeshop in the Netherlands, and hill-climbing.

Taking the second one first, if I bought the Bafang mid-engined one and found the hill-climbing ability lacking, is it not possible to reduce the overall gearing? The consequent reduction in top speed wouldn't bother me at all.

As for buying direct, I know my Google-fu is not strong but I don't seem to be able to find a UK-based supplier of the model I'm interested in - the catchily-named Cortina E-U4 Solid E-bike Men 28" 65cm 7S (I wish they did this with an 8-speed hub!). If that's really the case, it raises a few supplementary questions in view of the lack of pertinent information on HBS's website - and their less-than-impressive-so-far response time to email enquiries ...
 

danfoto

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 2, 2010
395
33
Sarfeast England
Hmmm ... just had another mooch round the Gazelle site and it looks like another possibility is the CityGo C7 HMS. And this gives me the option of a UK-based supplier ...
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,803
30,375
Have just had a look at Batavus & Gazelles websites - they seem to be pushing more mid drives now rather than hubs & are quoting 50nm of torque? Gazelle have both Bosch & Shimano equipped bikes. The Steps motor in my friends Ridgeback is only 40nm of torque and that feels perky enough?
The mid drive ones are ok, introduced to help their export markets, it's some of their hub motors that one needs to be wary of since some are feeble. The Dutch Sparta that I mentioned first arrived here with 20NM torque. And that wasn't its worst feature by far back then!

40NM is ok, but when a questioner mentions they are in their seventies and in a hilly area, I'd call that a minimum. Horses for courses. :)
.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,803
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Cheers folks. Hi there Flecc. I was hoping you were still around here ... :)

Points noted about the Batavus. However, one of their Cortina range seems to tick all the right boxes, so right now the two big questions centre round buying direct from Hollandbikeshop in the Netherlands, and hill-climbing.

Taking the second one first, if I bought the Bafang mid-engined one and found the hill-climbing ability lacking, is it not possible to reduce the overall gearing? The consequent reduction in top speed wouldn't bother me at all.

As for buying direct, I know my Google-fu is not strong but I don't seem to be able to find a UK-based supplier of the model I'm interested in - the catchily-named Cortina E-U4 Solid E-bike Men 28" 65cm 7S (I wish they did this with an 8-speed hub!). If that's really the case, it raises a few supplementary questions in view of the lack of pertinent information on HBS's website - and their less-than-impressive-so-far response time to email enquiries ...
All bikes are in very short supply now thanks to the Covid-19 cycling boom, who'd have thought a virus would be more effective than all the usual advertising efforts!

As per my answer to Swizz, the mid drive Dutch e-bikes are fine, just be wary of some of their weaker hub drive models and if not sure don't buy without trying first.

That said there's little choice at present, though some are promising new supplies in August.
.
 
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danfoto

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 2, 2010
395
33
Sarfeast England
Thanks once again folks. This is incredibly helpful stuff :)
 

danfoto

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 2, 2010
395
33
Sarfeast England
Just in case anybody can't sleep at night for wondering what if anything I decided on, the replacement for my Agattu is a Batavus Harlem E-go. Despite being £200 more, it beat the Gazelle Citygo C7HMS into second place by having more torque, another gear and above all disc brakes rather than rollers.

Anyhow, it's now on order and should be delivered by the end of next week, so all is good and I can go quietly about my business bemused by how few of the centre-motor ebikes available in the UK have a full chainguard, hub gears and disc brakes ...
 

Swizz

Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2017
211
161
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Sk14
Just in case anybody can't sleep at night for wondering what if anything I decided on, the replacement for my Agattu is a Batavus Harlem E-go. Despite being £200 more, it beat the Gazelle Citygo C7HMS into second place by having more torque, another gear and above all disc brakes rather than rollers.

Anyhow, it's now on order and should be delivered by the end of next week, so all is good and I can go quietly about my business bemused by how few of the centre-motor ebikes available in the UK have a full chainguard, hub gears and disc brakes ...
Ooh nice!

Thanks for posting, am looking forward to reading of when it lands with you!
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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I don't think most will lose sleep over what someone will buy as they have other important things to do like ……….. Sleep.
 

danfoto

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 2, 2010
395
33
Sarfeast England
I'll certainly report back with some first impressions once I've spent a day or two with it. BTW, I was intrigued to learn that what seems to be my ideal e-bike actually turns out to be made for the Danish market!
 
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sjpt

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Jun 8, 2018
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I'll certainly report back with some first impressions once I've spent a day or two with it. BTW, I was intrigued to learn that what seems to be my ideal e-bike actually turns out to be made for the Danish market!
Enjoy it when it comes. Double-check the breaks aren't the 'wrong' way round before you set off; or at least be aware if they are. Not too surprising it's Danish; their bike riding habits are pretty similar to those of the Dutch, just not so well known for it.