Review of the Kalkhoff Agattu

[frank9755]

Scott,

There are many testaments to the great service that you provide. I hadn't realised that you offered to support people in getting a local bike shop to assist in simple fixes. I also hadn't realised that you offered 30-day unconditional returns. Both represent great service and I can't see what else you could reasonably be expected to do to improve on that.

However I still stand by my statement that electric bikes are not ideally suited for mail order because - as this example demonstrates - despite your quality control and service back-up, the odd fault will creep through. Then I feel it is so much easier to pop back to the local shop which has an obligation to help as you bought it from them.

Frank

 

[keithhazel]

Hi Frank and Keith

There is no connection between a faulty Shimano hub and Electric bikes being sold online.
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it was not my intention in the slightest to diss your shop Scott,it was the oppersite,i made comments to the fact i like to be able to ring a person who knows what they are talking about and also able to pop in in person unlike say argos ect who have no idea of a product and just "sell" them, i also said it was of no fault of yours that you are not on my local corner shop as i live 100 miles away.i didnt liken my buying my Quando off you to mail order,ok xmas got in the way and i sulked , mail order to me is to order from a unvisitable business...so untill i have any bike problems i still recomend you to the many people who think my bike is "dead cool"
regards keith

 

[Joe]

getting the thread back on track to the agattu its two hubs not one and the question probably centres around the pdi and how these two hubs got through. having said that i have voted with my feet and ordered a pro connect from you and second franks comments re recognition of your 30 day return facility and the prolonged offer of taking up the 2 yr collect and return.

it is the nature of a forum that even one breakdown or an out of date web page is worthy of a thread or two.

 

[burncycle]

I've just read this thread and just wanted to say that when I test rode the Agattu I was not able to access all the gears on the hub.
It was a faulty bike that was offered to me to test drive. 6th & 7th wouldn't work. I wonder now if it was the same bike or another one ?

 

[prState]

Just noting that hub gear can be improperly alligned without actually being broken which will cause them to not work properly. And on a brand new set up, the cable will be stretching after the initial adjustment which could cause it to stop working correctly, even if they worked properly at first.

Not going into the higher gears is exactly what mine does out of alignment.

 

[Anta]

Finally Happy!!

Dear All, including 50cycles,

Sorry for not being around for a while, I have been very busy and enjoying my new Agattu.
At the end it works perfectly, gears (7) change smoothly and I had no further problems.
I'm glad that my comments created so much debate and would like to put my view forward, now that I'm no longer angry and can see things with a bit of perspective.
Of course it is not 50cycles fault that the firts hub was faulty, neither that the second hub was again faulty, as I trust Lloyds word that bikes are tested indoor and that limits how reliable is the test. However, 50cycles is the company that sells the bike to me and therefore have to assume all responsibilities if something goes wrong. What 50cycles seem to lack is a response plan in case of crisis. It is important to know what a reasonable request from a customer is and how to keep customers happy
First, when first contact is made with complaints about a brand new bike, I would expect an apology followed by a quick response. To be explained that this is unusual and that they will do the beat to solve the problem. IN SUMMARY: REASSURANCE
Second would be ACTION. Answer phone calls, follow up the problem, DO NOT SEND CUSTOMER TO NEAREST SHOP.
If problems continues despite good action, and client is getting very frustrated, then DECLARE A CRISIS SITUATION and put all your resources in place to solve the problem
And always to keep in mind, GOOD COMMUNICATION with custommer, as many apologies as necessary, make customer feel that the issue is important
IS NOT ENOUGH TO SELL GOOD PRODUCTS, the quality of the Agattu is not 50cycles' merit. Your merit is to deliver it in a satisfactory way
I know that this was not the result of bad intentions, and have now had full of apologies and finally full action response and a promise that things will chande with those regards
I am hopeful that 50cycles would be the seller of my next electric bike
In the mean time I am enjoying the Agattu A LOT
Thanks
Anta

 

[flecc]

Glad that you're enjoying your bike Anta.

I think that's a fair summing up of what a customer might reasonably expect in response to problems.
.

 

[poppy]

There's isn't really only one John, since it's territory dependent, and would also be influenced a bit by age and fitness level.

For road riding in an area which was fairly flat with a few moderate hills, it would be a rear hub motor but subject to it having top class battery and motor management and wide rear frame with a proper derailleur cassette, not a multi-freewheel. The overall speeds would mainly be near the point of best efficiency so range could be extremely long. Unfortunately, the relative ease of designing these basic bikes, the lack of electronic knowledge of bike designers and the difficulty of providing adequate investment into the research has led to a "good enough" approach of bolting together a collection of parts that work, sort of. Ideally it would have a better simulation of power linked to pedalling than at present with any existing hub motor, enabling pedelec as good as the Panasonic system. Without that and for the present, I prefer throttle control.

In a hilly area, the more steep the hills, the more I would tend to choose something like the Agattu, but again subject to having a very high efficiency management system. Although these have a lower transmission efficiency for the majority of the time at near the legal assisted speed limit, at least a properly designed drive system like the Panasonic is still available and offsets that part of the transmission loss that affects the motor drive.

Ultimately the latter fundamental design would always tend be better, simply because it's still a bicycle, not a very underpowered motorbike.
.

Flecc, it´s me again, Poppy. You unwittingly keep scaring the ...out of me with your references to the effort one has to make with the K. A. Knowing my limitations: almost third age, smoker, rookie, and not sportsy.With all sort of hills, mostly medium and long... Isnt this bike for tough oldies?

 

[flecc]

Hi Poppy.

I always err on the side of stopping someone from dashing into spending over £1000 and then regretting it, as I don't want to be responsible for that of course.

The point with the Kalkhoff Agattu is that it is primarily a bike, but one with electric assistance. There's nothing about it which is remotely like a motor vehicle, unlike many if not most e-bikes.

You can get an idea of what strength you need by thinking of the cycling effort you need put in on an ordinary bike, and then halving it. In fact in standard power mode you need to put in a bit over half the normal cycling effort than on a normal bike because the e-bike is heavier.

However, by using high power mode, that extra weight is offset and the effort needed is just below half that of riding a normal bike.

If you haven't been near a normal bike in decades and have no idea of how you'd cope with one, it becomes more difficult to judge, so we can try the wattage power output of a human to illustrate it.

Walking along the street at a reasonable pace might need about 100 watts output from you. That same 100 watts would be sufficient to cycle along at a moderate 10 mph in still air on the flat, so 50 watts is enough on the Kalkhoff. If you can produce 200 watts body output for a few minutes, you'll be able to climb the steepest hill you meet on an Agattu so long as you pedal slowly and let the bike's system take the strain. In fact endurance is far more important than high power output, the ability to maintain moderate effort for longish periods.

As an illustration, if you were in average good health in your 30s and 40s, you would have been able to output 100 watts for five hours continuous, and 200 watts for 1 hour continuous then.

The likelyhood is that you will manage ok, especially if you have no specific ill limiting output, but if from this you still are not sure whether you measure up, you should try before buying. That's always good advice for everyone anyway.
.

 

[poppy]

Hi Poppy.

I always err on the side of stopping someone from dashing into spending over £1000 and then regretting it, as I don't want to be responsible for that of course.

The point with the Kalkhoff Agattu is that it is primarily a bike, but one with electric assistance. There's nothing about it which is remotely like a motor vehicle, unlike many if not most e-bikes.

You can get an idea of what strength you need by thinking of the cycling effort you need put in on an ordinary bike, and then halving it. In fact in standard power mode you need to put in a bit over half the normal cycling effort than on a normal bike because the e-bike is heavier.

However, by using high power mode, that extra weight is offset and the effort needed is just below half that of riding a normal bike.

If you haven't been near a normal bike in decades and have no idea of how you'd cope with one, it becomes more difficult to judge, so we can try the wattage power output of a human to illustrate it.

Walking along the street at a reasonable pace might need about 100 watts output from you. That same 100 watts would be sufficient to cycle along at a moderate 10 mph in still air on the flat, so 50 watts is enough on the Kalkhoff. If you can produce 200 watts body output for a few minutes, you'll be able to climb the steepest hill you meet on an Agattu so long as you pedal slowly and let the bike's system take the strain. In fact endurance is far more important than high power output, the ability to maintain moderate effort for longish periods.

As an illustration, if you were in average good health in your 30s and 40s, you would have been able to output 100 watts for five hours continuous, and 200 watts for 1 hour continuous then.

The likelyhood is that you will manage ok, especially if you have no specific ill limiting output, but if from this you still are not sure whether you measure up, you should try before buying. That's always good advice for everyone anyway.
.

Poppy rides again! Very thoughtful of you in not railroading me (is this the right word?) into buying the K.A. The thing is that having had a clone W. with some defects(poor quality components, sluggish rolling, screechy brakes, loosening screws, motor failures ditto battery...) I am reluctant on buying even the original. Superstition. On the other hand, despite my fears of bigger efforts (which due to no fault of yours can´t be assuaged) I do believe that the quality of the K.A. is clearly superior, and I am drawn to it.

 

[musicbooks]

Poppy rides again! Very thoughtful of you in not railroading me (is this the right word?) into buying the K.A. The thing is that having had a clone W. with some defects(poor quality components, sluggish rolling, screechy brakes, loosening screws, motor failures ditto battery...) I am reluctant on buying even the original. Superstition. On the other hand, despite my fears of bigger efforts (which due to no fault of yours can´t be assuaged) I do believe that the quality of the K.A. is clearly superior, and I am drawn to it.

Hi Poppy,
As a proud Agattu owner I can vouch for the extremely high quality of the bike. I have been commuting now for 6 weeks and my life has been transformed. I have to dela with very steep hills each day (in Bath) and after a couple of weeks I cut my commute time form 25 minutes to about 14. The great thing about the pedelec is that you can put in as much or as little effort as you like. My hills are quite severe 1 in 7 in places for over 1.5- 2 miles and you do have to work at it a little to get up to the top but the bike eats up moderate hills with no effort whatsoever. I would thoroughly recommend the Agattu ( as long as you don't have to lift it much as it is quite heavy). Check out my posts and reviews on the bike so far.
bw
musicbooks

 

[oldosc]

Came a bit late to this thread, bin too buisy cycling,
As I sit in a gateway looking at the sea, drinkin a bottle of Speckled Hen (£1.50 on offer) , ((which is why my pence per mile is probably higher than most of you)). I glimpses out of th; corner of me eye The Agattu leaning on it's stand. A thought comes to mind, summut like

Beauty is truth, truth- beauty
-that is all ye know on earth
and all ye need to know.

The Agutta is truly beautiful....in form and purpose

(they don't do a tongue in cheek smilie)
I posted this on another thread, but I now believe it more than ever..I have got my Kalkhoff doing 30Km on a charge, but you should see the route. When I first had it I was doing 20Km on the same trail (Cornish costal road). It has excited intrest (and some envy) whenever I have stopped to talk about it, especially with senior(old)blokes.
The K is amazing heavy I thought (after my ridge ryder)
but looking for a bike for Jenny(also 70 and 5'2" with a decaying hip) I tried out a powacycle..that's heavy, and imho not as controable as a bike as the K.(if you understand that.Fleccs report says all that needs to be said technically, I think a masterly review, and I thank him for introducing me to the K.

 

[john]

... I posted this on another thread...

I'm glad you said that, thought I'd just fallen through a wormhole!

 

[flecc]

I'm glad you said that, thought I'd just fallen through a wormhole!

Ditto.

This must be the most widely disputed authorship/origin in poetry, Yeats often getting the credit, though it goes back to Plato at least.
.

 

[oldosc]

Ditto.

This must be the most widely disputed authorship/origin in poetry, Yeats often getting the credit, though it goes back to Plato at least.
.

Bugger due to my short term memory loss I thought I wrote that