Scared to buy

[Spinalot]

It seems to me that quite a few makers and designers are having new bikes and things "coming soon". Am I better to wait till the new year and either:-

• pick up old stock at knock down prices.
• wait for the latest cool tech.

 

[NRG]

The thing is the 'latest and greatest next best thing' will always be just around the corner so if you like something now then get it, however, 2012 does seem to be shaping up as an interesting year and I've put my next project on hold to see what happens.....also with the current economic climate I'm not so inclined to jump in first and ask questions later...

 

[johnc461165]

Buy the Alien Aurora you will not be disapointed trust me, fantastic bike loads of power and illegal but WOW what a bike

 

[eddieo]

If you buy something like a Wisper bike, they hold value well and very easy to sell on. They are popular for good reason, and warranty is valid if you buy used, as long as you have original recipt. I started with a used Wisper 905SE bought from the classified section on here. Then traded up after 12 months and got back near enough what I paid for the bike..


sounds like you dont want to spend the money for a high end bike. So I would go and give some bikes in your price range a proper demo (around a track at a show does not mean that much to be honest) and make a shortlist.

Yes there is always something new around the corner. 2012 bikes coming out now but the best are not cheap. If you want a crankdrive and the best seems to be the Bosch at the moment, the least you will need is around £1800. But from what you have said I feel confident that you would be happy with a Wisper and there are 5 on ebay at the moment...

EDIT:

well I see you are thinking along these lines anyway!lol As I just had a look on classifieds. My pick would be the 2010 905SE or this 706 wisper Alpino from a top member!

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/classifieds/9760-wisper-706-alpino-sale-14ah-battery.html

 

[Mussels]

It seems to me that quite a few makers and designers are having new bikes and things "coming soon". Am I better to wait till the new year and either:-

• pick up old stock at knock down prices.
• wait for the latest cool tech.

I've had a couple of electric bikes and seen various improvements, the electric side of things has improved but more in refinement than massive leaps. The manufacturers are generally conservative when it comes to battery tech as the new greatest thing can easily turn out to be rubbish, motors have improved but again it's pretty standard stuff and unlikely to change drastically.
If I was looking for a bike now I'd go with an established manufacturer with a UK presence (including the Panasonic based bikes), they will have experience of the weak points and redesigned them by now. My first Wisper suffered quite a few problems and it is a PITA waiting for things to be fixed, they took steps to improve the models and the newer ones look similar but are far more reliable.
Some of the cheaper imports have done well but support has been poor leaving people angry, if I was going to try a cheaper model I'd go with one of the active traders on here who regularly demonstrate a commitment to improving the products and service.
If you intend to use it a lot then don't forget the standard bike parts, some need a lot more looking after than others.
If you want to buy 2nd hand then look for something with battery warranty remaining, even if it's just a few weeks left just in case you buy a dud one. If no faults are apparent after a couple of hundred miles then it's unlikely to fail suddenly in the future.

 

[Biged]

If you want a crankdrive and the best seems to be the Bosch at the moment,
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/classifieds/9760-wisper-706-alpino-sale-14ah-battery.html

That's your personal opinion eddieo and not a fact, any Panasonic owner would probably disagree.

 

[Spinalot]

I was looking at the Aurora, I like thisidea of having power on demand or pedelec if I want it But scared of spending 1k on a bike!

 

[eddieo]

That's your personal opinion eddieo and not a fact, any Panasonic owner would probably disagree.

It is a personal opinion backed up by experience and an awful lot of like minded enthusiasts in Germany. why do you think Kalkhoff along with everyone else has Bosch models for 2012

Even the latest 36 v Kalkhoff impulse drive is reviewed poorly against the Bosch. The sceptics among you make me laugh, I doubt that you have even bothered to demo one....

 

[flecc]

Even the latest 36 v Kalkhoff impulse drive is reviewed poorly against the Bosch.

Is there a linked to English language review of the Impulse system Eddie?

 

[johnc461165]

I pondered for quite a while over the £1000 price tag on the Aurora, but now after 3 months of pretty much daily use I am now totally convinced that it was money well spent.

 

[eddieo]

Is there a linked to English language review of the Impulse system Eddie?

I'll try but these links have a habit of not taking you to where they are suposed to. Its on Urban bikeing website...fingers crossed! lol (seems OK)

Google Translate

 

[flecc]

Thanks Eddie. As usual the poor translation from German doesn't allow a full understanding of everything said. In the main the comment was slightly less power than some versions of the Bosch, but in other respects fine. It sounds as though it's smoother operating, possibly without the abrupt cutout of the Bosch which I dislike on any e-bike.
.

 

[tillson]

It is a personal opinion backed up by experience and an awful lot of like minded enthusiasts in Germany. why do you think Kalkhoff along with everyone else has Bosch models for 2012

Even the latest 36 v Kalkhoff impulse drive is reviewed poorly against the Bosch. The sceptics among you make me laugh, I doubt that you have even bothered to demo one....

A serious question Eddie:

I've been riding my Panasonic driven bike for almost 3 1/2 years. The system has ample power, it delivers that power very smoothly and almost silently, integrating with the rider's input in a very natural way. Further, the Panasonic drive has been 100% reliable and maintenance free despite having been ridden in every condition from +30 to -12 deg C and dry dusty conditions to partially submerged. I am even using the original chain and sprockets after 9870 miles. On low power, the battery range is almost what it was when new and about 20% down when used on the standard power setting.

My question is this: Which specific features (and I'd like you to list them if you would be kind enough to do so) of the Bosch system make it better than the Panasonic?

You seem to be favouring the Bosch system and dismissing the Panasonic in a way which could direct a new purchaser towards Bosch. As both of these machines represent a considerable investment for some people, I think that it is only fair to ask you to qualify your opinion with specific facts. I have no experience of the Bosch system at all and am open minded, so I will look forward to learning from your response to the above question.

 

[daudi]

Scott, I don't know whether to thank you or to curse you. I have been lurking and reading for the last couple of weeks and had finally decided this morning that I almost certainly want to get a Kalkhoff, and that I would not gain much by waiting for new bikes coming out in 2012. My original budget was £1,500 and I have recently convinced myself to go to £2,000, but don't think I can go any further. I was at the point of trying to work out if I should get the Kalkhoff Image B27 BionX or the Kalkhoff Pro Connect Disc, and was planning to come to 50cycles in London soon to try them.

I hope to do about 25 miles per day commuting, so around 5,000 miles per year (assuming I can use it almost every working day). I have what I consider to be a large hill to get over (the North Downs) and am fairly sure I want a crank-drive not a hub.

Your post has taken me from the comfortable position of having made a choice that suits me, back to uncertainty! So now I need to know more about these new Impulse bikes. How soon will the new Impulse bikes be available and what will they cost?

 

[NRG]

The next greatest thing is always just around the corner Wait for the Impulse, buy it in 2012....come 2013 along comes a new and improved one!

I was going to hang on for a 2011 Kalkhoff PC (The best apparently) as they moved from rim to disk brakes for that year but thought what the heck....I'll end up paying full price for it and for what? very little benefit over the 2010 version....so I saved a load of cash and bought the 2010 version.

Same thing happened when I was in the market for a new laptop earlier this year, wanted a Mac Book Air but was put off by colleagues as the new and improved version was just around the corner (4 months away).....nope, looked at the spec thought it didn't offer anything substantially better so bought the current version and have not regretted it one bit!

 

[eddieo]

A serious question Eddie:
You seem to be favouring the Bosch system and dismissing the Panasonic in a way which could direct a new purchaser towards Bosch. As both of these machines represent a considerable investment for some people, I think that it is only fair to ask you to qualify your opinion with specific facts. I have no experience of the Bosch system at all and am open minded, so I will look forward to learning from your response to the above question.

All I have done is bring to peoples attention that there is now an alternative to a Panasonic powered bike. I appreciate they are not readily available to test ride (this will change I bet 2012) And in no way saying rush out and buy one, just to give one ago before making a decision?

The advantages to me are weight, power and a normal wheelbase. and STYLE. they look so much better then the old fashioned IMO Kalkhoff granny style bikes.

The consensus of opinion on German forum is that it is a better system. On that basis I bought one...and very much enjoyed it. I trust fellow enthusiasts more then dealers, even if they are German (dont mention the war) They seem to take their cycling very seriously..

It cost £1800 + £70 delivery, weighed 21kg so I could lift it on to my camper bike rack easily. full charge in 2.5 hrs, 90% charge 1.5 hrs. reliable info on HMI. When you change assistance levels it recalculates range. power there until battery runs out (unlike my previous hub bikes) By example, when conditioning battery I was happily climbing local hill and when the 1 Km remaining on speedo disappeared bike stopped dead!

There are lighter, better spec'd Bosch bike available but they all share the same drive (except new 350 watt) but they cost more...

I am now after another one. but it needs to be a step through. problem with this is step through tend to be heavier. so the search continues.... There is a new Kalkhoff semi folder that I might look at with new impulse drive, But I really like the AVE X speed but it is nearly 3000 euro (for a folder)

E Tim is happy enough with the bikes he has bought, Dave of Kudos bikes when he tried one at bike show said he was impressed...The battery issue is a red herring IMO as I was getting at least 25 miles from mine and I am overweight and unfit. many getting much more then that .... and if you really want touring range carry a second battery. This BIG battery is better, makes no sense to me now that I have more experience. Dont see the point of carrying a heavy battery around all the time when 90% of the time I dont need that range.

If it did not cut of at 15.5 it would be an almost perfect system, but easy to ride it above this anyway once you have momentum, then you hit a hill, slow down a bit and power cuts in seamlessly....After all it is a completely legal bike

Anyway, it is all about more choice, and at long last Panasonic have not got it all there own way....I look forward to the work around on the cut out when it eventually comes, as I dont really want to buy an ilegal bike just to get over this one disadvantage

 

[flecc]

Will the coaster brake be on the UK models of the Impulse bikes Scott, they are none too popular here.

 

[flecc]

Thanks Scott, that's good news. I think the Impulse system is holding lots of promise, having the potential to overcome the occasional things that a few don't like about the other current systems from Bosch, Daum and Panasonic.

For once it could be the crank drive that suits almost everyone.

 

[tillson]

All I have done is bring to peoples attention that there is now an alternative to a Panasonic powered bike. I appreciate they are not readily available to test ride (this will change I bet 2012) And in no way saying rush out and buy one, just to give one ago before making a decision?

The advantages to me are weight, power and a normal wheelbase. and STYLE. they look so much better then the old fashioned IMO Kalkhoff granny style bikes.

The consensus of opinion on German forum is that it is a better system. On that basis I bought one...and very much enjoyed it. I trust fellow enthusiasts more then dealers, even if they are German (dont mention the war) They seem to take their cycling very seriously..

It cost £1800 + £70 delivery, weighed 21kg so I could lift it on to my camper bike rack easily. full charge in 2.5 hrs, 90% charge 1.5 hrs. reliable info on HMI. When you change assistance levels it recalculates range. power there until battery runs out (unlike my previous hub bikes) By example, when conditioning battery I was happily climbing local hill and when the 1 Km remaining on speedo disappeared bike stopped dead!

There are lighter, better spec'd Bosch bike available but they all share the same drive (except new 350 watt) but they cost more...

I am now after another one. but it needs to be a step through. problem with this is step through tend to be heavier. so the search continues.... There is a new Kalkhoff semi folder that I might look at with new impulse drive, But I really like the AVE X speed but it is nearly 3000 euro (for a folder)

E Tim is happy enough with the bikes he has bought, Dave of Kudos bikes when he tried one at bike show said he was impressed...The battery issue is a red herring IMO as I was getting at least 25 miles from mine and I am overweight and unfit. many getting much more then that .... and if you really want touring range carry a second battery. This BIG battery is better, makes no sense to me now that I have more experience. Dont see the point of carrying a heavy battery around all the time when 90% of the time I dont need that range.

If it did not cut of at 15.5 it would be an almost perfect system, but easy to ride it above this anyway once you have momentum, then you hit a hill, slow down a bit and power cuts in seamlessly....After all it is a completely legal bike

Anyway, it is all about more choice, and at long last Panasonic have not got it all there own way....I look forward to the work around on the cut out when it eventually comes, as I dont really want to buy an ilegal bike just to get over this one disadvantage

Some fair comments Eddie. I think you do tend to give an inference that the Bosch system is in some way better than the Panasonic, rather than just drawing people's attention to the fact that the Bosch exists as another option. I can see some valid reasons why you prefer it, but please don't write off the Panasonic system as something old hat. It's far from it.

Also, don't place too much emphasis on what you read on forums without having had first hand experience. Just stand on a busy high street on a Saturday afternoon and watch all of the depressing souls shuffling about. Most of them are internet users too and they contribute to forums.

 

[eddieo]

But its common knowledge that it is a more powerful system. The Bosch appealed, the Panasonic never has. I enjoyed the KTM for 3 months. and it will be replaced by another.

I bought my first e bike from research and opinion posted on this forum. where else do you get reliable information from, other then from fellow enthusiasts. In this case, as Bosch so new I had to search further afield for info....

Again, just go out and try the various bikes before committing, my forecast is that many of you in the future will be riding Bosch powered bikes...This somewhat precious attitude toward Panasonic is really very odd.