Shimano Alfine option

Mussels · May 21, 2010

Saucer of milk for the cat please.

1) The Alfine hub is mounted on standard vertical drop out with Alfine Chain tensioner. This prevents the chain from coming loose. ( NOT Having it on a horizontal drop out without chain adjuster or puller which is not the correct way as other brand has it, the chain will gradually extend a little and there is difficulty in getting the chain tension right, and run the risk of chain falling off eventually if the tension is not adjusted.)

There's no such thing as a horizontal dropout, a dropout is a fork end that allows the wheel to be dropped out without removing the chain first. Whilst dropouts are easier for maintenance they aren't as strong or efficient and have more parts to go wrong, I can't make my mind up which is best.

2) Alfine hydraulic disc brake calipers with 160 mm centre lock disc rotor rear, 180 mm disc rotor front. ( NOT different Shimano mechanical disc brakes for the front and rear.)

It was announced a while ago that these are to be replaced with hydraulic brakes, how are you going to get round the lack of electrical cutouts on the Shimano levers?

4) The 37V10 Ah Samsung Li+ cells and capable of 3C discharge rating ( 30 amps ) with 2 years warranty to 70 % and BMS good for complete discharge at 25 amps , and 4 amps fast charger with cooling fan, and Al casing – Hi-Power charger. Option for 37V 14Ah LiPo battery (1 yr warranty at the same price )

Only a 1 year warranty, expecting a short life?

8) Super narrow CN-HG 53 chain with RB (rust buster) as recommended by Shimano (NOT Z51RB)

Super narrow will be weaker and will wear out quicker, I don't understand the thinking behind that.

12) Retail price is £ 1800 (NOT £ 1900) , available for booking at Onbike Ltd OnBike Electric Bikes - The UK's Electric Bicycle Specialist. The best electric bikes and reviews from eZee Emotion Wisper Gocycle and more...

Your price is for the smaller battery capacity, I can't find how much the comparible one will cost as the only Torq I can see on that website is the old one.

This seems like a cheap shot at a competitor with selective facts and white noise in between, your marketing posts are a bit too blatant. I thought you were WWC before but the writing style is different as is the standard of English, has there been a change of leadership?

Scatty · May 21, 2010

Give it a rest Chief boring. Sorry Ezee, Let us make our own mind up put your specs on & let us choose which we'd rather have instead of you coming on here every week & starting thread's which just drone on about yours & wisper's specs.

Scatty · May 22, 2010

For yor info Chief i would not buy a wisper ever

. Put your specs up show pics of your bikes tell us about your new stuff but stop comparing yourself to wisper be better. I did look at your website just could not find anything that you were going on about

eddieo · May 22, 2010

if "Chief boring" actually paid attention to what was going on on here instead of endlessly promoting his boring, poorly supported/warranted bikes? He would know that Scatty is far from a wisper fan, but why should such insignificant personnel details like this stop "Chief boring" in his pathetic quest, to score points against wisper bikes.

A question:

you have a problem with your e bike...Who would you rather contact with said problem? "Chief boring" OR David Miall of Wisper?

I rest my case (answers on the back of a £10 note plse)

tillson · May 22, 2010

eddieo said:
if "Chief boring" actually paid attention to what was going on on here instead of endlessly promoting his boring, poorly supported/warranted bikes?

I don't know what is boring about these Ezee bikes. From what I read here, they sound quite innovative and have some good quality components fitted.

Personally, I like to read about other brands. I like the Panasonic system and haven't really contemplated a hub motor bike, but I am open minded about the offerings from other manufacturers and I am pleased that they come on here to promote their products.

I don't see what is wrong with this Chiefy Chappy highlighting, what he believes to be, the advantages of his product over a rival's. There are always plenty of knowledgeable people ready to speak up if they believe that he is trying to pull the wool over our eyes. But to suggest that he should shut up and go away, thus stifling any discussion doesn't seem to be a very sensible approach.

It may be a case that a few of us are getting a little too precious over the brand of bike which we happen to own at the present time.

Mussels · May 22, 2010

You think your supplier knows what's best for your product, that's brave.
You're not WWC then, does he not run Ezee anymore?

flecc · May 22, 2010

I agree with Tillson, I like to hear all the information from manufacturers and have no trouble with comparison, we in this forum do that all the time.

Chief eZee Power is Wai Won Ching, founder of eZee Kinetics Technology Company Ltd. He has a son, Ken Ching, who has also worked within the company and who is a member here in his own right since 2006 and can post separately under his member name "Ken".

As many members know, Wai Won is prepared to give a superb direct personal service to any owner who needs it, at any time that a national agent does not do so for any reason.

His current range of bikes are excellent and very competitively priced but recently suffered poor representation. Since they now have a first class agent in Onbike, that problem is past.

Personally I'd like to see more appreciation that there are cultural differences in the way people express themselves, and in each national sense of humour. These don't lead to misunderstanding if a little tolerance is shown on each side.

Meanwhile I'm happy for Wai Won or any other manufacturer to compare products and specifications. I repeat, we members do it all the time and can do that with greater accuracy if manufacturers keep us informed.
.

eddieo · May 22, 2010

But this is not what he does......he uses the forum as a knocking shop.

And the success of Wispers new 906 alfine bikes has obviously upset him even more! lol

flecc · May 22, 2010

I don't agree Eddie, this all started because he compared his bike's spec with an equivalent Wisper model.

So what, that's exactly what we do when we comment on bikes. If the Wisper is good enough, it will stand on it's own strength and there's nothing to defend.
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Alex728 · May 22, 2010

flecc said:
Personally I'd like to see more appreciation that there are cultural differences in the way people express themselves, and in each national sense of humour. These don't lead to misunderstanding if a little tolerance is shown on each side.

I can forgive Mr Ching as he reminds me a lot of my late father in the way he expresses himself and defends his products/opinions, right down to the point of lapsing into a slightly more Chinese form of English when he is passionately defending his opinions!

This is hardly surprising, as Ken is about my age group and my dad was Chinese too - he grew up in Penang (686 km NW of Singapore, but Malaya even post-independence included Singapore for a few years until they became separate nations).

it is a very competitive and hard-working culture, even compared to Indians or Malays (my mum is from the Tamil Indian community) which is why Chinese of that part of the world have done very well in business, but its more ruthless than what many English people are used to.

As I've mentioned before, an Ezee bike was a close second when I got the Wisper, but at the time the customer service structures weren't in place.

TBH much of the issues with the accuracy of Mr Chings statements come from comparing a 2008 model Wisper with the 2010 Ezees, 2009 and 2010 models have improvements, plus arguments over the drivetrain component selection which on a Wisper or any rear hub motor is as yet constrained by the physical dimensions of the motor axle. BTW I saw on a conventional cycling blog a call for a return to 5/6/7 speed blocks as they were more robust!

(It would also be good to know what improvements have been made to the Ezee models since this time!)

flecc · May 22, 2010

Alex728 said:
plus arguments over the drivetrain component selection which on a Wisper or any rear hub motor is as yet constrained by the physical dimensions of the motor axle.

It's still valid to point out that disadvantage though, I do it all the time in comparing bikes and front or rear motor setups.
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Alex728 · May 22, 2010

flecc said:
It's still valid to point out that disadvantage though, I do it all the time in comparing bikes and front or rear motor setups.
.

not sure (and I've owned a lot of unpowered bikes too) if I'd even class it as as much of a disadvantage such particularly on an ebike (other than I suppose not being able to use hub gears)

in the context of the Ezee vs Wisper argument Mr Ching was berating Wisper for using Tourney shifters - anything else would have either not worked at all or had one or more useless gear positions (which presumably would have dumped the chain!). I have not seen any Wisper sales material claiming that anything other than the derailleur was from Alivio range.

from here (a blog from an American dude who works in a bike shop aimed at the lycra types!)

Presta Vs Shrader

I don’t know what is next, but what I think would be cool to see are modern, lightweight 5, 6, or 7 speed drivetrains. Whoa, right? Let’s take it back for the enthusiast who doesn’t want all that futuristic complexity. It could be the hip thing to ride, not as simple as the fixie, but close enough. What if we returned to the days when there were only five or six cogs back there? Would we get a simpler system? Those dudes twenty, thirty years ago operated fine with that few gear choices, ever hear of a guy named Bernard Hinault? I wonder if a nice six speed cassette would still cost three hundred dollars? If it lasted as long as some of those old freewheels, I just might pay it. They could be built to last. Chains could be thicker again, and would therefore last longer too. There might not be as much waste and unnecessary “recycling” of materials.

Mussels · May 22, 2010

flecc said:
Meanwhile I'm happy for Wai Won or any other manufacturer to compare products and specifications. I repeat, we members do it all the time and can do that with greater accuracy if manufacturers keep us informed.

There is quite a difference between what manufacturers write and what consumers write, consumers are generally much less one sided even if they have brand loyalty or grudges. What I don't want to see is escalation where arguments get nastier and frequent, it won't help anyone.
It may be common business practice in China and if I want to do business there I will bear it in mind, this site is based in the UK and I'm not interested in petty slagging matches.

tillson · May 22, 2010

Mussels said:
It may be common business practice in China and if I want to do business there I will bear it in mind, this site is based in the UK and I'm not interested in petty slagging matches.

I have to agree, some of the comments made by Chief Ezee have initially made me cringe upon first reading and do seem alien to our way of expressing ourselves.

However, he's from a different country with a different culture. I suppose to him, the style in which he writes is absolutely normal and acceptable business practice with no malicious intent. It's not my way of doing things, but who is to say who is right and what is wrong when you contrast our different styles of communication against our cultural backgrounds? Because his style of communication doesn't fit in with our culture, it is no reason beat him up.

I thought that this site was on the World Wide Web (www.pedelecs.co.uk) not the United Kingdom Web. We'll just have to get used to all these foreigners coming on here taking our posts and starting their own threads. The next thing you know, they'll have this new fangled internet thingy on computers.

flecc · May 22, 2010

I agree Mussels and Tillson, his unwitting comments have made me cringe too and I wish he hadn't made them. However, I make allowance for the cultural differences which make amends to some extent.

It remains true that originally Wai Won only compared two bike models. Whatever one's view on that, the vilification he got in response was totally unjustified and disgraceful.

Abusive language was used, irrelevant old history was dredged up to support the abuse, secondhand prices used as taunts, former agents failures raised, none of these in any way relevant to the matter of the comparison.

Since he sells bikes to the public and has a different native language, Wai Won is unable to adequately answer in like terms, and that makes such attacks nothing less than disgraceful bullying of a person unable to fully defend himself.

Wai Won has had the grace to apologise for his language/culture failing, and I think a return apology is due from at least one member of this forum.
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eddieo · May 22, 2010

If that is aimed at me Tony you have some cheek and hell will freeze over that day.

I have never liked the overt presence of manufacturers on any forum I use, for this very reason......and have said so on here from day one.

I just gave like for like, that is all. your mate took advantage knowing full well others where out of the country and not able to respond, that you think it is OK for him to try and hood wink members that gears and brakes etc... are what make a decent e bike ownership experience is frankly astonishing.

I don't want to repeat word for word, but I cant let you get away with this. ezee bikes have appalling resale value right now, at this time, not 2 or3 years ago......So resale does not matter? to you maybe.......

So its OK for your chum to point out what he considers weakness in the competition but not for me to do likewise.

I have to buy my bikes with my own hard earned, along with most on here, I have no natural bias unlike some..... I just want the best bike I can get for the money. and this certainly does not include your chums brand.

flecc · May 22, 2010

eddieo said:
I just gave like for like, that is all. your mate took advantage knowing full well others where out of the country and not able to respond, that you think it is OK for him to try and hood wink members that gears and brakes etc... are what make a decent e bike ownership experience is frankly astonishing

Why would you think he knew David was out of the country, you have no evidence for that and I very much doubt he would know.

For me the bike quality is paramount in my ownership experience, as it is for many others. Just because you don't agree and have different views is no excuse for an accusation of hoodwinking, you could just politely have disagreed and pointed out what you value in an ownership experience.

I stand by what I say, and it is not a cheek to observe the fact that the comments made had no relevance to Wai Won comparing his bike with another. You could just have criticised him for that and not raked up anything else you could clutch at to attack.

Wai Won Ching is not my mate or chum, just someone I've met once and I defend when unfairly abused in this forum, as I would anyone else subjected to the same unwarranted treatment.
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alex_h · May 22, 2010

I agree with Flecc, everyone is allowed to post here including the manufacturers. Personally I feel that becuase they are present here it gives us opportunity to talk to them.

If you were to buy iPod would you be able to talk to Apples chief directly if something went wrong?????????? You can clearly forget about it so the fact that they are here is very good as it gives us consumers the opportunity to contact them directly.

So you Cheif Wai Wong please post here and don't care about those who knock you off for your posts.

Those who find his posts boring - shut up and don't read it if you are not interested - simple as that

best regards

Alex

Shimano Alfine option

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