Starting to feel out on a limb...

[FatMog]

Hi everyone

I would just like to say (and to bike manufacturers especially), that not everyone is in pursuit of the lean, mean, stripped-down electric machine!

There has been a very strong flavour on the forum lately which suggests that the coming trend is for lighter, faster (hey, not got a problem with that, per se... ) bikes with the 'big softie' features of comfy seats, front suspension, mudguards etc removed, and a change in bike architecture towards MTBs or more hybrid bike styling.

All of which is fine, everybody has their own requirements and preferences, but I'm starting to feel neglected. I've recently bought a sprint. I loved the look of the torq but it wasn't practical for me. I have carpal tunnel issues which mean I can't carry weight on my forearms so I need to be very sit-up-and-beg, and the front suspension helps fend of the numb fingers. I like the mudguards. I like the pannier rack. I even like the step-through frame. In fact I like the whole set-up even though it does have a faint whiff of scottie-dog-in-the-front-basket and tartan thermos flask about it. It works for me at my age (43), body shape (yes, got lots of that!) and fitness level (what?!!), and it suits the type of journey I want to make.

I was a little dismayed to hear on the forum that the chopper was no longer available cos I'm 5'7" and being a girl, have long legs in proportion to my body and still ride with the seat on its lowest setting. This means if I was any shorter I wouldn't be able to buy a bike of this style from ezee.

I can't be the only person who wants a (I guess) leisure 'comfort' bike, but it does seem to me that the market is moving away from this. Please don't forget about us in the rush to be on-trend!

 

[flecc]

I think my postings might have been included in what you've said Fatmog, and if so, please don't interpret what I've done as being towards MTB etc, that's the last thing I want. Efficiency yes, and that's why I don't like suspension which saps pedal power, but MTB in general are the most inefficient bikes and don't find favour with me.

I'm on your side in two ways. First as you'll see on the strictly utility Q bike, legal, wide mudguards, easy step over, all the equipment usually possible, and then some more not normally thought of, and very comfortable and versatile. The T bike just fills in with the bit that bike misses, but would not have been created if I hadn't been stuck with an unused Torq. It won't get much use anyway.

I definitely favour your style of bike as well, since it's a true utility bike, and I'd much rather see more Sprints than more MTB clones. But as I've said in here before, there should be bikes to suit everyone, but above all, they should be well designed and efficient. Just because it's a utility bike shouldn't mean the rider is made to suffer from poor design. Those who want to enjoy the cycling aspects shouldn't be left facing only bikes with suspension, while those who want step-through convenience shouldn't suffer suppliers who only offer the mountain bike frame style. The customers should rule on what's offered.
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[frank9755]

You're not the only one

Interesting to hear your views. My wife is looking to get a sit-up-and-beg type bike - she gets back-ache from the men's shape ones.

She tried the Ezee Sprint but the handlebars were too low. On closer look it seemed that it was actually the same shape as the men's bikes just with no corssbar - not any higher at the front or shorter in the beam.

Her shortlist includes the Urbanmover UM44L, Powacycle Windsor and the new ladies shape that Wisper is bringing out next month.

Frank

 

[flecc]

Adding to that list Frank, the Sparta Ion is also that style and everyone who's ridden it seems to fall in love with it's qualities. And the New Twist is also similar, but very expensive for what it is.

I don't think Fatmog is in any danger of a lack of choice, many of the new ones like the two I've just mentioned fitting the bill, but maybe she's just finding it's the apparent bias in the forum that's troubling.

The problem is that with utility bikes there isn't much to talk about, except when they go wrong. I was amazed at the response to the Q bike posting, since I thought it's utility style and usage wouldn't interest many, but I was wrong, there were plenty who appreciated that sort of use.
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[nigel]

Nigel

BY Fatmog
I can't be the only person who wants a (I guess) leisure 'comfort' bike, but it does seem to me that the market is moving away from this. Please don't forget about us in the rush to be on-trend! Hi fatmog i dont think you will need to worry on that score as electric bikes do seem to appeal to older people who also seem to like the same as you i am 50 yrs old and still a big kid i like less and more speed what i do hate is electric bikes that look like mopeds cant see the point of those bikes NIGEL

 

[frank9755]

Thanks Flecc - The Sparta Ion didn't make the list as a little too expensive! If we do push the price cieling up a bit the other one that I'd be tempted to look at is the Flyer. We've just been on holiday in Switzerland and there were quite a few of them around. They looked pretty good - crank motor, fairly stylish but discrete design. I haven't heard anything about them but based on the fact that they are obviously selling well in Switzerland and it is (a) a country where they seem to know a bit about bikes and (b) a hilly country, they must have something going for them!

I think Vita Electric in London sell both the Sparta and the Flyer (not sure what the Flyer costs mind you!) so we might have to pay them a visit.

Frank

 

[flecc]

Yes, Vita do Frank. The Bike Flyer comes in a variety of versions. I believe it starts at £1400, but that's basic like the old Twist model, they use the same motor, and so is rather low powered, only helping the cyclist on a one to one ratio at best. The better and higher power versions are dearer, but from what I see the real benefits don't start until £2000 and much beyond. So the Sparta that they also sell is rather a bargain by comparison.

All the Swiss bikes are over priced, the Swizzbee at £2500 for example, also sold by Vita in Hampstead.
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[frank9755]

Maybe we won't go up to Hampstead after all! The Flyers looked good but as you say, Flecc, that does seem a bit expensive. I can now see why the Flyer hasn't made much impact in the UK...

Frank

 

[FatMog]

Sorry Flecc, didn't mean criticise anybody else's opinions here, I was just airing a gut feeling as to the way the market seems to be moving at the moment!

I agree, positive change and development is a good thing, especially in a product as immature as e-bikes. I was just hoping that my preferred style of bike wouldn't be forgotten as we look forward (maybe) to a new generation of whizzy hybrid style machines.

Glad to hear that wisper are coming up with a ladies model - will it be of the 'comfort' type? Not for me, I'm sorted, but there didn't seem to be much choice in that style of bike, given that I wanted power for acceleration and hill climbing, modern (not SLA) battery design and a reasonable reputation and build quality.

Hi frank9755, I was suprised to hear that you found the handlebars low, I've just had a look at mine and the top of the grip is at about 116cm. This is with the stem out as far as the 'stop here, you muppet' line, and the rake of the handlebar adjustment is almost vertical, which has the happy advantage of bringing the grips closer for those of us without gibbon tendencies . But the stem did need a little firm encouragement and a shot of wd40 before it decided it could adjust higher. I too could use them a little higher and closer but fortunately this is an ok compromise for me. I suppose I could always add those 'texas steer' cowhorn handlebars if I really wanted to!

 

[flecc]

No apology called for Fatmog, in effect I was apologising to you in case my postings on efficency and the T bike had added to the bias.

You can get riser handlebars with moderately swept back ends and various rises, without going to the extreme of cowhorn types:

and comfort types:

 

[FatMog]

No prob Flecc, I always enjoy your postings, it's a pleasure to share the thoughts of someone so effortlessly on top of their game even if I don't understand half of it!

 

[frank9755]

Fatmog,

Thanks very much for info on the Sprint dimensions. I'll pass on to my wife.
It sounds like there is more adjustment in the handlebars than I had assumed. I have to say that when we saw it there was no prospect of being able to adjust it, there was no-one around who seemed to know what was possible, so we were rather left to guess.

I changed the handlebars on my Powabyke from a nearly straight mountain bike type bar to a more comfortable swept-back set as in Flecc's diagram. This has made it a little more pleasant to ride but the unintended consequence is that the rear brake cable is now too short - need to get a longer one when I get round to it!

Frank

 

[alanterrill]

I saw a couple of Flyers in Germany recently - looked good but I didn't get an opportunity to try one. As to the Sparta Ion - its given a full review in this month's Velovision, along with the Joey Move and Ezee Forte. Only available by mail as far as I know, but a great magazine VeloVision Online

Alan Terrill

 

[DBCohen]

Hi everyone

I would just like to say (and to bike manufacturers especially), that not everyone is in pursuit of the lean, mean, stripped-down electric machine!

...

I can't be the only person who wants a (I guess) leisure 'comfort' bike, but it does seem to me that the market is moving away from this. Please don't forget about us in the rush to be on-trend!

I agree - I managed to snag a final Cadence order from 50Cycles, and that was because I wanted something that would make my commute comfortable, not something that would give the Tour De France pause for thought...

I suppose the problem is that MTB and other more extreme frame styles are perceived as being hotter sales prospects. More performance features allows for an increase in prices and a higher margin (I am looking at you, Forza and Forte!).

 

[flecc]

I suppose the problem is that MTB and other more extreme frame styles are perceived as being hotter sales prospects. More performance features allows for an increase in prices and a higher margin (I am looking at you, Forza and Forte!).

I agree about MTB etc, preferring traditional pre-mountain bike frame styling, but surely you've still gone for performance with the powerful Cadence?

You could have had the more moderately powered Powacycle Windsor or Salisbury, still with the suspension and fat tyres, and saved half the money for example.
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[Jeanette Morgan]

Hi, I found it hard to raise my handle bars on my sSrint 7 but succeeded and they do have quite a lot of extra height. I would agree with Fatmog that the saddle at its lowest is rather challenging, I'm 5' 5" and to be honest it is too high for me to feel 100% comfortable in traffic, however, I have solved this my wearing trainers with a thickish sole, thus adding extra height for when I have to reach the ground whilst sitting on the saddle! The Sprint is only made in one size apparently.


Regards Jeanette

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

Built for comfort, yeah

Hi everyone

I would just like to say (and to bike manufacturers especially), that not everyone is in pursuit of the lean, mean, stripped-down electric machine!

Yes, i'm with you on this, once i've toasted my 'Spangly Chink', i'm gonna get me one of these:

Gallery :: Xtracycle Community :: 176

Gallery :: Xtracycle Community :: 175

then i reckon i could carry enough batteries to go away for the w/e

whaddya think ?

beeps

 

[flecc]

I know that bike beeps! That's William Morrison's camera bike. See here on my Twist website mods page.

He's now fitted the SRAM dualdrive that I mention there, and likes the speed it gives him.
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[flecc]

I agree - I managed to snag a final Cadence order from 50Cycles, and that was because I wanted something that would make my commute comfortable, not something that would give the Tour De France pause for thought...

You'll be pleased to hear that 50cycles have just announced the return of the Cadence to the range.

So that's still more people suited.

To be honest, I've been looking through the threads and what's on the market, and can't see this perceived performance bias problem.

Out of countless thousands of threads, one thread on efficiency where long range was being looked for, one thread on hub motor design and torque, my Q bike thread on creating a good and entirely legal utility bike, plus the T bike thread on making what was already a performance bike, but a wimp on hills, into a good hill climber as well.

Is anyone really saying they don't want good hill climbing and long range?

As for the bikes on the market, they are all comfort bikes. They've virtually all got fat tyres, sprung forks, sprung seatposts and padded saddles. As for being too big, some are now so small that there's a thread complaining about that too!

It seems to me that the only people being neglected are the ones complained about, who want a traditional efficient diamond frame rigid fork but electric bike. There aren't any of those. So in fact it seems we need more pressure on manufacturers in that direction, not less!
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[Beeping-Sleauty]

Giant by name...

absolutely fell in love with the look of this bike, and managed to track down the original article here:

My Morgan is now a Clydesdale - Bike Forums

lurve those big racks, ...not so sure about the ladder tho'
beeps