Sunlova anyone?

tangent

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 7, 2010
299
0
I am considering a budget electric folder and have come across Sunlova, which have a UK web site (sunlova.com) and sell bikes on ebay. Ebay responses seem good. Has anyone any experience of this company and its products?

This is the bike I am considering: 20"New Aluminium Electric Folding Bicycle Bike-20AF01W on eBay (end time 25-Apr-10 23:02:43 BST)

They claim to use a 250W 8Fun motor, with a 36V 9Ah Panasonic battery. However, the battery looks a bit small to me for it to match this specification.
 
Last edited:

tangent

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 7, 2010
299
0
They seem to have identical looking non-electric folders for £140 (weight 12kg), which would imply that the addition of the electric components and battery adds £360 and 8kg weight.

Is this likely to be useable or total junk? I don't mind buying a budget bike, I always have done in the past, provided it is not completely useless!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,875
30,419
It's always difficult to know how good they are with the large number of these Chinese e-folders that are around. I suspect this will be perfectly ok, but there's always the question mark on future battery availability. That battery should be ok for it's rating, these carrier mounted ones are wider than vertical mount types so the cell capacity is about the same, just the cells differently oriented in the casing.

I don't know your height and reach, but the frame on this looks a bit cramped, around 15 inches from saddle nose to handlebar stem, possibly more suited to those below 5' 7" or so I'd think.
.
 

tangent

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 7, 2010
299
0
5' 7.5"! So hopefully frame size should not be a problem. How did you work out it was around 15 inches from saddle nose to handlebar stem?

If I buy one of these, is there any way to verify that the motor really is a genuine 8Fun, or just a cheap copy?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,875
30,419
5' 7.5"! So hopefully frame size should not be a problem. How did you work out it was around 15 inches from saddle nose to handlebar stem?

If I buy one of these, is there any way to verify that the motor really is a genuine 8Fun, or just a cheap copy?
I used the 20" wheel + tyre as a rule to get a proportional measure of that distance. :)

A JohnD indicates, they seem a reputable brand and I would be surprised to find the motor not a genuine one. As it happens, even the cheap copies seem to perform quite well anyway, just having the disadvantage of less likelyhood of getting spares.
.
 

Morag

Pedelecer
Feb 28, 2010
225
0
Shropshire
I look forward to reading how you get on with it.
 

tangent

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 7, 2010
299
0
Sunlova have said they can provide spare batteries at present for £200. They actually apologised that the price was so high, stating that Panasonic cells were expensive! Seems a perfectly reasonable price to me for a 36V 9Ah battery, but is of course 40% of the cost of the bike.
 

dan

Pedelecer
Sep 30, 2009
137
-1
Sunlova have said they can provide spare batteries at present for £200. They actually apologised that the price was so high, stating that Panasonic cells were expensive! Seems a perfectly reasonable price to me for a 36V 9Ah battery, but is of course 40% of the cost of the bike.

Sounds like a very reasonable price for a 36 volt lithium battery at 9amps capacity.

thought this bit was quite fun

Cycle Condition :Brand new sealed in box. 95% pre-assembled, only take 2 mins for the rest (Need fitting of pedals, stem/bars & seat)

Anyone who can do that in 2 minutes should work for an F1 team
 

tangent

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 7, 2010
299
0
Here are some notes on the Sunlova electric folder I ordered on ebay. I only had the bike for a few days and then sent it back.

I ordered this as a cheap back up electric bike. General quality was good but I quickly realised that I would not be happy with this bike and so returned it. I had not realised what a fussy cyclist I had become!
I could not fault the bike for general quality at this price (£500). Parts were lower end but all still useable apart from the pedals which were too slippery. Final assembly required the fitting of the handlebars, seat post and pedals. The seat post and handlebar stem both had manual adjustments so a spanner was only needed for the pedals. I also had to align the break blocks and tweek the breaks to get an even closure. I then put the battery on overnight charge and took the bike out for an unpowered test.

I am only 5' 8" tall, but found the bike too small. The reach was short and there was no way to adjust this other than by altering the seat and handlebar height.

The bike is under geared - I could not get above 12mph on pedal power. I was spinning as fast as I felt comfortable with at this speed. The sensation was not helped by shorter than normal cranks and slippery pedals. A larger chainwheel would be needed to pedal at a reasonable speed on the flat. Perhaps the chinese like to take things easy. None of this would necessarily matter to someone who did not want to get anywere in a hurry or was happy to use the throttle extensively.

The next day I tried the bike with the electric assist. However, the pedelec mode did not work. I reported this to Sunlova who said that they would send me the parts and instructions to fix this. I did not take them up on this offer though because I had already decided to return the bike by this stage.

On throttle alone I found the motor very powerful - more than I was expecting. It zoomed up moderate hills, up to about 5%, faster than I could pedal it. Personally though I did not like using the throttle. My Giant Lafree does not have a throttle and it feels very odd not being able to pedal. It was also tiring to hold the twist throttle open for extended periods. Obviously this would not have been so much of a problem had the pedelec mode been working. The worst aspect though was the wrist pain caused by the vibration. My current bike has no suspension, but having experienced this bike I would not choose a bike with a front hub motor and 20" wheels again unless it had suspension forks. The vibration is not too bad for speeds below 12mph.

I did a 10 mile run, quite a lot of the time under power, stopping to adjust the handlebar height to try to get comfortable, but it did not work for me. I would prefer to ride a comfortable non-electric bike to this.

The Sunlova electric folder might suit someone who was short and/or wanted to potter about around 12mph. I would need something much more highly geared with suspension forks and a longer reach.

A few other observations/comments:

I have never tried a bike with a front hub motor before, other than for very quick tests. It was an interesting experience, but I found that the increased weight at the front a bit awkward. I frequently need to go up steps, over pavements, etc. and the increased weight on the front wheel made this more difficult than it is with my Lafree.

One major criticism I would have with this bike is the lack of a power on/off switch on the handlebars - completely unforgiveable in my opinion. There is a switch on the rear rack though. In addition, there was no switch to disable the pedelec mode and operate on throttle alone, should anyone want this.

There was a noticeable drag caused by the motor when freewheeling down hill. You do not get this at all with crank based electric bikes, but perhaps this always happens with hub motors. I certainly found it irritating. I get irritated by dynamos though, so maybe I am being fussy again.

The battery locks into the rear rack and there is some shock cord that goes over the battery rack. I was not sure whether this was for luggage or for firmly holding the battery in the rack. If it is for holding the battery in position, then this makes it a bit more awkward to add/remove the battery for charging. I placed the code over the battery just in case.
I am very used to internal hub gears having had a Giant Lafree for 6 years and a 3 speed Sturmey Archer based bike for many years prior to that. Possibly because of this I found the gears very clunky and greatly missed the ability to change gear when stationary. Perhaps better quality gear components provide a smoother change.

Sunlova fell over themselves with offers of help. From a support point of view they seem very good. There was no difficulty in obtaining a refund either - although I had to pay the delivery/return charges which was not unreasonable.

My experience with a front hub bike has rather put me off this type of bike. I realised that I wanted the motor to be as unobtrusive to my cycling as possible so I have ordered a new Panasonic crank driven electric bike instead. I will relegate my old Giant Lafree to being my spare bike.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,875
30,419
As youi found, much of this is common to nearly all hub motor bikes, for example the lack of on/off switch at the handlebars which isn't easy to have with the controllers commonly used.

Equally the very low pedal gearing is common on small wheel bikes whether e-powered or not, a result of the small wheel of course, and on the e-versions, the motor usually outruns the pedalling ability.

These preferences work the other way as well of course, those used to hub motors often cannot get on with the Panasonic type drive.

As for me, I enjoy both types for their particular strengths, accepting their very different characters, and on small wheel bikes I fit a very big chainwheel like this to sort the low gearing problem.
.
 

tangent

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 7, 2010
299
0
Other than a throttle, what are the advantages of a hub motor?

The main disadvantages I found were:
- unwelcome additional weight on front wheel
- horrible vibration up through the handlebars
- drag when freewheeling/power off
 

Old Timer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 5, 2009
1,279
12
Other than a throttle, what are the advantages of a hub motor?

The main disadvantages I found were:
- unwelcome additional weight on front wheel
- horrible vibration up through the handlebars
- drag when freewheeling/power off
Like Flecc I fitted a 57 tooth chainring to my folder and it works fine.

The vibration you speak of might be down to the length of the bar ext, my alien front hub wheel is sliky smooth with no vibration or drag. (could the sunlova hub be a BRUSHED motor?)
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,875
30,419
Other than a throttle, what are the advantages of a hub motor?

The main disadvantages I found were:
- unwelcome additional weight on front wheel
- horrible vibration up through the handlebars
- drag when freewheeling/power off
The additional weight of front hub motor can cause discomfort on bumpy surfaces due the force of the weight being bounced directly up towards the bars, but this varies considerably on different designs.

The weight of the front wheel doesn't affect most, it's only if the bike has to be lifted that it really matters, and any slight change in handling character is small and soon forgotten.

Of course many e-bikes have a rear hub motor which aren't affected by the above, and I prefer them in the rear hub.

The unwelcome drag is very true of most hub motors and these aren't suitable for sustained pedalling without power. There are exceptions. The roller drive Tongxin hub is virtually drag free and some hub motors have full freewheels which isolated all the internal drive gearing, but this latter type has to be bulky to do that.

The main hub motor benefit is power, not limited by transmission capability in the way chain drives can be, and a second benefit is simplicity and the reliability that results from that. Hub motor bikes can also be much cheaper to manufacture. Worldwide they are the dominant type by far.
.
 

NRG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 6, 2009
2,592
10
Its interesting about the drag of hub motors, I have the same one as OT on the GSII but I find it very noticable to ride without power and yet I have the same/similar Bafang motor on my larger wheeled (700C) Peugeot and its barely noticable. Maybe its down to the narrower tyres or simply the larger wheel diameter or just manufacturing variations between samples.....
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,875
30,419
They do vary. I've found just stripping out and reassembly can change the drag characteristic, but any improvement doesn't necessarily last.

Nylon gears in various states of wear and meshing, variable amounts of grease, the grease character changing with temperature, I doubt if these SB type motors would ever be consistently free running in freewheel mode over time.

Larger wheel diameter does help though, they can be a pig to pedal in a 20" wheel.
.
 

Old Timer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 5, 2009
1,279
12
Its interesting about the drag of hub motors, I have the same one as OT on the GSII but I find it very noticable to ride without power and yet I have the same/similar Bafang motor on my larger wheeled (700C) Peugeot and its barely noticable. Maybe its down to the narrower tyres or simply the larger wheel diameter or just manufacturing variations between samples.....
If I lift the alien wheel off the ground and spin the motor up my arms start to ache well in advance of the wheel coming to a standstill. I wouldn`t say that the wheel spins for as long as a normal well balanced standard wheel but it isn`t that far behind. Now is that the same as pushing it along??

Pulling the bike backwards to get it out of the shed there is a definite drag and whirl noise that would drag on the road for sure but that would be going backwards after all.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,875
30,419
Going backwards is against the freewheel so the motor is being turned as well as the orbital gears, hence the extra drag.

There's a big difference in spinning the wheel by hand and riding it, a trap many fall into by saying there's no drag.

Spun by hand it's difficult to get much above 4 mph as a front wheel speedo check shows, at 10 to 15 mph the drag is very much more real. This is why you observe the drag reducing and the wheel still spinning on at low speeds when doing the hand spin check.
.
 

Old Timer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 5, 2009
1,279
12
Going backwards is against the freewheel so the motor is being turned as well as the orbital gears, hence the extra drag.

There's a big difference in spinning the wheel by hand and riding it, a trap many fall into by saying there's no drag.

Spun by hand it's difficult to get much above 4 mph as a front wheel speedo check shows, at 10 to 15 mph the drag is very much more real. This is why you observe the drag reducing and the wheel still spinning on at low speeds when doing the hand spin check.
.
Tony

If I lift the alien wheel off the ground and spin the motor up

That`s by firing the motor up and not by hand:confused: