Sunrunner Cycles

[Miles]

I'm currently trying to solve the sprocket problem,........

You could speak to Chris at Highpath Engineering - but not until he's done the jobs that I've given him....

 

[flecc]

Exactly Miles, Chris is a great chap, but hardly famed for his speed.

Last time he did something for me it took months and he felt like a change half way through that delay and went off on holiday!

As you probably know, they normally don't do this sort of steel work in specials, mainly working in alloy and farming out the rest. The problem on the Giant/Panasonic sprocket is that it has a stepped in and splined centre much thicker than the sprocket material which needs a heavy press and associated special tool. Cost of a very small production would be very high.

I'm exploring the European manufacturers who continue to use these units. The only other practical thing would be to use the existing centres, cut out the centre of a 14 tooth sprocket, weld the two together and re-harden. Even that's not easy because of the punched out holes on the original.
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[Miles]

Yes, I see the problem, now. Have you tried a strongly worded letter to Giant/Panasonic, before you spend too much time on this....?

 

[DBCohen]

I didn't really expect anyone would be impressed by the claims but thanks for your opinions. It's always interesting to see a new entry into the market. I would still be interested to try a test ride and will suggest that he supplies A to B with bike to review.

Given that the publishing cycle (sorry for the pun) means that it might be months before an A to B review appears (if at all)..

Why don't you ask him if he would be prepared to loan a bike to someone associated with this forum? If it is any good he could expect to see quite a few sales on the back of it, and it might also help A to B move it up their review schedule. And I think it would be useful to compare one of these 'bold claim' market entrants to a more established and well quantified machine.

If he is game, I would certainly be willing to check it out against my own eZee bike, and write up the result for publication.

 

[flecc]

Yes, I see the problem, now. Have you tried a strongly worded letter to Giant/Panasonic, before you spend too much time on this....?

Even A to B who have better direct access to Giant don't have luck trying their contacts. David tells me that Giant are just not interested. I think they'd just like the old bikes to go away. Perhaps that's not surprising since the reviews on the Suede and now the new "Twist" have been so unfavourable with the comparisons to the much superior old Twist. The quicker the old ones vanish, the better as far as they are concerned, since they are haunting everything e-bike they do.

Their first move on these sprockets about a year ago was to slam the price up to £30, a real "go away" message if ever there was one.

Panasonic won't communicate with individuals on these units or spares. It's manufacturers only with minimums involved.

 

[Miles]

The quicker the old ones vanish, the better as far as they are concerned,.....

So much for environmentally friendly... Hate to think how much energy went into creating them in the first place......

 

[flecc]

So much for environmentally friendly... Hate to think how much energy went into creating them in the first place......

They have no concience in this respect. At an earlier stage in production a large number of Panasonic units were produced that lapsed permanently into Eco mode almost immediately. No usable solution was found, so all bikes for a while were sent out to dealers with a spare complete Panasonic unit and instructions to swap them over, then bin the old unit. So they all went to landfill.

Saddest of all was that the units were all complete with both sprockets, so there's many of the wanted items rusting away underground.
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[Wisper Bikes]

Faint hearted

Yes, I'd like to see A to B test it, though only time will tell with the battery life. Months ago I tried to get Wisper to submit a 905e to A to B and they indicated they would, but it seems courage apparently departed.

We will send one off to David H as soon as the new batch arrive.

Best regards David

 

[flecc]

I thought that might prompt a reaction David.

I'm confident that it will get a good review though, after all the effort put into it, so no loss of sleep necessary.
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[Wisper Bikes]

A to B

I thought that might prompt a reaction David.

I'm confident that it will get a good review though, after all the effort put into it, so no loss of sleep necessary.
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Yes Flecc you certainly know how to rattle my cage!

Regards D

 

[flecc]

But with good intent David.

Many consumers are wary of products that aren't submitted for review, and the absence of these gives rise to suspicions.

e.g. Steven Brandist's post.
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[Tintaglia]

Well done Flecc, that was quick work. Let's hope it tests well.

 

[flecc]

The message I posted on a Sunrunner test was incorrect, it was another bike, a cryptic mail misread. Tintaglia's post above refers to the incorrect information, which I've now removed.
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[alex]

QUOTE=DBCohen;10713]Given that the publishing cycle (sorry for the pun) means that it might be months before an A to B review appears (if at all)..

Why don't you ask him if he would be prepared to loan a bike to someone associated with this forum? If it is any good he could expect to see quite a few sales on the back of it, and it might also help A to B move it up their review schedule. And I think it would be useful to compare one of these 'bold claim' market entrants to a more established and well quantified machine.

If he is game, I would certainly be willing to check it out against my own eZee bike, and write up the result for publication.[/QUOTE]

 

[flecc]

Those who don't submit for review do pay a price if their product really is good. Just look at the success of eZee bikes in the high end UK market, and the unique position the Torq occupies, all due to review submissions to A to B magazine, and the favourable outcomes.

If I were bringing in a bike that was any good at all, I'd be pushing it out for review to everyone I could think of, A to B magazine, Velovision and the cycling and general press. And I'd do that before announcing the bike at all, ensuring the maximum impact that surprise brings.
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[DBCohen]

If I were bringing in a bike that was any good at all, I'd be pushing it out for review to everyone I could think of, A to B magazine, Velovision and the cycling and general press. And I'd do that before announcing the bike at all, ensuring the maximum impact that surprise brings.
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The question is - do we assume those who are not prepared to put their bikes forward for evaluation when requested (as I did on this forum) have something to hide about their products?

 

[Ian]

I doubt that most of the budget bike suppliers really care what the readership of cycling magazines assumes about their products, being only a tiny percentage of their potential marketplace. Most of the cheap bikes will be bought as impulse purchases, the buyers never having heard of A to B or any of the other magazines, in many cases the supplier will not have heard of these magazines either, even those who have will probably see little point in submiting a bike for test as the container will be empty and the seller moved on before the results are published.

 

[flecc]

The question is - do we assume those who are not prepared to put their bikes forward for evaluation when requested (as I did on this forum) have something to hide about their products?

I don't go quite as far as assuming automatically that the product is no good, but I do assume the supplier hasn't enough faith in it, or the long term future of the brand. It always impressed me that the first act of the Chings of eZeebike when entering Britain was to submit a prototype of the Sprint (temporary name Forza!) to A to B magazine. Their next act later was to call on A to B with the prototype Quando for testing, and after later submission of production bikes, the Torq was submitted in prototype form for testing. Throwing them open to the closest examination at the earliest stage like that tells me that they were very serious about their products.

I tend to exclude the very cheapest stuff from these views, since as Ian has said, many of those suppliers are in for the "quick buck". Prior to that they'd probably successively been into deep freezers, computers, double glazing, and will probably move onto solar panels. Whatever is the current marketing gimmick.
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[fishingpaul]

when i tried a whisper at presteigne, i was very dissapointed at £950, i expected it to really outshine my suede, but it did not.i would like to see it tested along with an ezee bike,as prices are so high,it should be a very good match.

 

[flecc]

when i tried a whisper at presteigne, i was very dissapointed at £950, i expected it to really outshine my suede, but it did not.i would like to see it tested along with an ezee bike,as prices are so high,it should be a very good match.

A good match? I very much doubt that if you found the Wisper 905e no better than a Suede. Any of the eZee bikes easily outclass the Suede in both performance and pedalling efficiency. For example, you've asked elsewhere about enabling 18 mph on the Suede, but most eZee models run to around that with freshly charged battery, and two of the models can go much faster when off public roads. Most of their models are also the best hill climbers on the British market. That's why I have two of them, living in an extremely hilly area as I do.
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