The cold got to my Pro Connect.

[burncycle]

For the first time tonight, the cold got to my Pro Connect.
It was the coldest night ever so far on the way to work tonight.
It must have been -2 or -3.
I found that the battery or the motor was struggling a little to the norm.
Hills that I go up in 4th needed 3rd gear.

The battery was not left in the bike out in the garage, so it might be the motor that was so cold that it didnt perform to its normal best.

Dont know really.
Got to work like an ice block.

Any theory's or has anyone had the same issue or experience.
Im sure Flecc may have an answer.

Regards Bob.

 

[flecc]

I'm sure it is the battery Bob. These latest polymer types have soft plastic bag cell enclosures, unlike any previous battery types which had metal cell casings and insulation.

There's very little to stop this current extreme cold getting to the cell contents quickly, just the thin box plastic and the cell bag material. The exteme cold severely slows the chemical reaction that produces the current, anything below about 5 degrees having a big effect. Here's a photo of the battery innards showing the ranks of cell bags:

 

[burncycle]

WOW !
I can see how they might well conduct the cold, rather than insulate.
Thanks for that Tony.
I do feel though that until now, the bike and the battery have performed extremely well with the majority of weather conditions I have thrown at it.

I'll pop a post in here after my trip home in the morning and tell of any problems as it may be colder still.
The bike will have had a year round test soon after spring.
I have ridden it everyday now to work and back. Never took the car except for when the bike was at 50cycles for repair.

 

[Footie]

flecc posted:
.... These latest polymer types have soft plastic bag cell enclosures, unlike any previous battery types which had metal cell casings and insulation ....

I've had similar low power readings with my LiFePO4 battery on my short five-mile round-trip to Tesco's - two handle bar lights went out (normally all lights glowing).
I put it down to a combination of the current cold and Cornish hills.
.

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

LiFePo4 in the cold

have wrapped my LiFePo4 in polystyrene & foam, about .5 inch all round, then placed in metal standard battery case, it is performing well, 12% loss on distance, no loss in bite.

this is far superior to the 30% loss i would get on the SLAs at this temperature.

note: i do keep the bike indoors at room temp.

 

[burncycle]

Just an update.
My bike came back no problems the next morning from work.
I think it was even colder than the night before !
The bike was stored in a warm room overnight at work, as opposed to my cold cold garage.
This makes me think It could have been the motor that was frosty rather than the battery.
What does anyone think?

 

[flecc]

I wouldn't be Bob. Motors and electronic components operate well between 20 degrees C below zero and 40 degrees C, and some over much wider ranges.

In fact the cold helps motors since the resistance of the windings decreases with falling temperature, all resistance disappearing at absolute zero, this referred to as superconductivity.

It's only the battery that can be adversely affected by cold. Don't forget that putting a relatively warm battery onto a very cold motor makes an effective heat sink via the blade connectors and the heavy copper conductors in the battery, and also the mounting and lock latch on the bike, these rapidly draining heat from the battery. Having the bike in the warm will have nullified this effect.
.

 

[burncycle]

I wouldn't be Bob. Motors and electronic components operate well between 20 degrees C below zero and 40 degrees C, and some over much wider ranges.

In fact the cold helps motors since the resistance of the windings decreases with falling temperature, all resistance disappearing at absolute zero, this referred to as superconductivity.

It's only the battery that can be adversely affected by cold. Don't forget that putting a relatively warm battery onto a very cold motor makes an effective heat sink via the blade connectors and the heavy copper conductors in the battery, and also the mounting and lock latch on the bike, these rapidly draining heat from the battery. Having the bike in the warm will have nullified this effect.
.

Amazing info.
Keep up the good work Tony.

Regards Bob.

 

[wotwozere]

Hi

yes good work.

But how do i warm tha hall way to warm the bike.

thx

Bob

 

[flecc]

But how do i warm the hall way to warm the bike.

Get one of those single plate free standing cooking hobs, set it to the lowest setting with it plugged in and placed under the motor unit. It would then be like a car sump heater, warming the unit slightly.

Alternatively, use a middle to high heat setting and put it on a plug in timer to come on for an hour before you set off to thoroughly warm the unit.

There's always a way.
.

 

[keithhazel]

Get one of those single plate free standing cooking hobs, set it to the lowest setting with it plugged in and placed under the motor unit. It would then be like a car sump heater, warming the unit slightly.

Alternatively, use a middle to high heat setting and put it on a plug in timer to come on for an hour before you set off to thoroughly warm the unit.

There's always a way.
.

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alternatively get an overnight electric blanket from boots, mod it and wrap it round yer bike, and keep your bike warm on number 3 all night long.........

 

[flecc]

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alternatively get an overnight electric blanket from boots, mod it and wrap it round yer bike, and keep your bike warm on number 3 all night long.........

Underneath is important though, heat rises.
.

 

[keithhazel]

Underneath is important though, heat rises.
.

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yes very true Tony,i often thought what a lot of wasted heat so maybe it would be more efficient if all the furniture was raised on 5 foot legs...

 

[flecc]

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yes very true Tony,i often thought what a lot of wasted heat so maybe it would be more efficient if all the furniture was raised on 5 foot legs...

Instead we lowered ceilings in modern houses, same difference.
.

 

[keithhazel]

Instead we lowered ceilings in modern houses, same difference.
.

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Damm your good......

 

[flecc]

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Damm your good......

Well, not bad for 72.
.

 

[andyh2]

Riding in 1C to -3C up here in chilly Perthshire I'm finding my Agattu range is basically halved. Down to around 15 miles on medium setting and 10 miles on high.

Just out of interest is the reduction in capability the same across battery technologies ie is there any difference between how NiMh and LiIon are affected by cold weather?

 

[IOM]

Did a 21 mile run on my Salisbury LPX in same conditions, averaged 14.8mph, so was certainly using the battery. Still plenty of life (2 out of 3 lights).

 

[tillson]

Riding in 1C to -3C up here in chilly Perthshire I'm finding my Agattu range is basically halved. Down to around 15 miles on medium setting and 10 miles on high.

Just out of interest is the reduction in capability the same across battery technologies ie is there any difference between how NiMh and LiIon are affected by cold weather?

50% range reduction sounds quite a lot for the temperatures that you have stated. I have been riding in temperatures similar to those for the past week and although the range is reduced it is by far less than you are experiencing.

Have you tried doing the battery self diagnostic check? This involves holding the button in for an extended period in order to obtain the actual capacity of the battery. If you are getting five lights when doing the check the battery capacity is OK. If you get less than five lights it is an indication that the battery capacity is falling and you should contact 50C for further advice. (This check isn't the same thing as pressing the button to see the amount of charge left in the battery)

 

[andyh2]

That's a thought Tillson, I'll do the battery diagnostic. I'll be unlucky if it is that as this is a replacement battery as my first battery went to 80% after 400 miles.