The most efficient motorised transport

[Scimitar]

I would say it has to be the cheapest and most efficient form of powered transport. The motors are typically 90% + efficient, agains a motorbike or car at circa 60%.

What are you taking into account to reach 60%? An IC engine in road use is lucky to reach 28% thermal efficiency, and only in very specialised applications, such as huge slow-turning marine engines, does better than that - sometimes 50%, which is hardly relevant.

 

[flecc]

I wonder whether Panasonic have tried to design around peak power or peak efficiency.

It's always been Panasonic's intention to design for maximum efficiency as this advertising blurb comparing old and new units shows:

 

[tangent]

I have not done a proper quantitative test but from my experience this is not just hype from Panasonic. My 26V 10Ah Technium Privilege goes faster and has a much bigger range than my old Giant Lafree with a 24V 9Ah battery. Much bigger than can be explained by the battery capacity on its own.

 

[flecc]

Fully agreed Tangent, the Agattu I tested was a far better and more efficient performer than my old Lafree Twist Lite, despite being heavier.
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[HittheroadJ]

Most energy efficient would probably be a motorised recumbent with one of those cigar-like shaped bodies.

You can't beat the aerodynamics (still one major drain of power) and a recumbent would allow a combination of electricity and human power that uses the human side most optimally.

YouTube - Testing a Sinner Mango+ velomobile with electric assist and I'm sure there are other examples.

For everyday use I would probably prefer my cheap ebike that I can park anywhere without worrying too much, looks more like a normal bike, can easily have a standard child-seat fitted on the back etc. etc. But for the sheer joy of riding I would not mind owning one of those cigars... A Quest Velobike with a Crank type of system (Panasonic) might be nicest......

 

[tillson]

It's always been Panasonic's intention to design for maximum efficiency as this advertising blurb comparing old and new units shows:

View attachment 1567

Flecc, excuse my thickness, but the attached chart interests me, but I don't think that I can understand it.

I understand that we are looking at a comparison between the old and new Panasonic unit being used by a 60 Kg rider to travel up an incline of 2 degrees at 15 KPH.

The old model required a total power input of 344 Watts to climb the slope. (82 from the rider and 262 from the battery)

The new model requires a total power input of 250 Watts to climb the slope. (74 coming from the rider and 176 from the battery)

Is this correct? If so, why has the rider's input gone down? I can understand why the battery power would reduce if the motor is more efficient, but I would have thought that the rider input would have been constant. Unless the electrical assist to human input ratio has changed.

Which brings me to my next question! Am I reading this correctly, on the above described incline, the rider is only contributing 74 of the 250 watts needed? If so, how much the motor assists is a bit of surprise to me .

 

[flecc]

Flecc, excuse my thickness, but the attached chart interests me, but I don't think that I can understand it.

I understand that we are looking at a comparison between the old and new Panasonic unit being used by a 60 Kg rider to travel up an incline of 2 degrees at 15 KPH.

The old model required a total power input of 344 Watts to climb the slope. (82 from the rider and 262 from the battery)

The new model requires a total power input of 250 Watts to climb the slope. (74 coming from the rider and 176 from the battery)

Is this correct? If so, why has the rider's input gone down? I can understand why the battery power would reduce if the motor is more efficient, but I would have thought that the rider input would have been constant. Unless the electrical assist to human input ratio has changed.

Which brings me to my next question! Am I reading this correctly, on the above described incline, the rider is only contributing 74 of the 250 watts needed? If so, how much the motor assists is a bit of surprise to me .

It is a bit misleading in some ways and caused me some puzzlement initially. However, note the words in the middle, "battery power", in other words current consumption (gross watts), not motor power (net watts), so the ratios look odd. The motor power will be less than the consumption of course. N.B. By motor power here I mean unit output power after the gear reduction, that's probably what they use too, so it will be markedly lower than watts consumed.

The other thing is that the rider input to motor output is a ratio, so if the greater efficiency mean less current needed and rather less motor power needed through less gear reduction loss, the rider input will also drop as the same ratio of the reduced motor power for a given climb. Since they don't include motor power, we can't exactly check their figures, but I think they are optimistic, 25 % would be nearer the mark in my opinion.

Finally of course, they've chosen 15 kph (9.4 mph) as the climb speed, which is the optimum point for maximum performance on these units. They would do that wouldn't they!
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[tepol]

Is the motorised bicycle the most efficient road legal mode of motorised transport available to mankind?

It surely must be close? Most of the energy expended goes towards propelling the rider rather than propelling itself which gives it a headstart over most other motorised vehicles I would think.

I agree but again it depends on what your doing .

While researching ideas for trying to turn my kneewank.. err I mean walker EV( see other posts ) I came across this wee suprise that I thought was quite cute.

I could see something like this for example being great for urban cities , shopping , so forth that the hassle of having to lock , carry bike ( keep in mind how unsafe some palces are too )

But also for folk with disabilities or injuries that want to get back into sports or other activties etc

 

[eTim]

I was watching Massive Machines the other night on Discovery, presented by Chris Barry and they were presenting the history of motorised transport, they eventually got to those massive Caterpillar quarry lorries, they burn around 30 gallons of diesel an hour, but relative to the amount of work they did, they worked out that they ran at an equivalent 150miles/gallon !!

 

[jbond]

Most energy efficient would probably be a motorised recumbent with one of those cigar-like shaped bodies.

You can't beat the aerodynamics (still one major drain of power) and a recumbent would allow a combination of electricity and human power that uses the human side most optimally.

YouTube - Testing a Sinner Mango+ velomobile with electric assist and I'm sure there are other examples.

For everyday use I would probably prefer my cheap ebike that I can park anywhere without worrying too much, looks more like a normal bike, can easily have a standard child-seat fitted on the back etc. etc. But for the sheer joy of riding I would not mind owning one of those cigars... A Quest Velobike with a Crank type of system (Panasonic) might be nicest......

Cedric Lynch and Agni Motors - The Legend (w/Video) | Electric Vehicle News

Cedric is one of those slightly mad English eccentrics who is the inventor of the Agni motor that is used in most of the electric motorcycle racing entrants. I don't know the power of the motor, but the bike has about 1 KW-Hr of 72V battery. The claimed range and performance is 150 miles and 60mph top speed. There's quite a lot of bicycle technology in there. Of course it also looks like a complete joke and appeals to Heath Robinson enthusiasts.

The big challenge here is making good streamlining look good and be usable every day. Small things like being able to climb into it and put your feet down when you stop are extraordinarily difficult to arrange while still making it as efficient as possible.

 

[Scimitar]

I'm extremely glad the day of the bloke in a shed isn't over.

Agnimotors.com - Manufacturers of high efficiency D.C. motors - Projects

Cedric Lynch's everyday transport when he is in the UK is an electric motorcycle with streamlined body, that can do 250 km (150 miles) per charge at 80 km/h (50 mph); unfortunately its appearance tends to provoke laughter, and something would have to be done about this in making any production version.

Wow; very dirty trick played on the inventor (not unusual).
Agnimotors.com - Manufacturers of high efficiency D.C. motors - Cedric Lynch - Inventor of the Lynch Motor

In July 2002 the Danish parent company of LEMCO dismissed Cedric Lynch. An industrial tribunal ruled several months later that the dismissal was unfair and also ordered LEMCO to pay Cedric a large amount of money it owed him. On the same day LEMCO was put into liquidation heavily insolvent. Many of its assets had been transferred over the previous few months to L.M.C., a previously dormant company owned by the same parent company, which has since continued making motors in the UK.

Subsequently Cedric got together with his friend Arvind Rabadia, who together with his Brother Hasmuk Rabadia had been thinking of starting a business in India, and set up Agni Motors to make further-improved versions of Cedric's motors.

One thing's for sure - when I fancy having an Agni motor I'll buy one directly from Cedric Lynch and not LMC.