Nonsense propagated by the press. Livingstone handed the allegations to the police, asking them to investigate him and the allegations. They did and found no evidence whatsoever.
The Olympic road race,why so dissapointing?
- Thread starter Kudoscycles
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Sorry Flecc......but are you seriously defending Ken Livingstone ??
Or is this just an example of your well known wit and sense of humour ??
Lynda
Of course I'm serious, I don't just recycle the press and Tory propaganda as you do, for example in calling Livingstone "Red Ken". He's never been a communist and the Labour Party is the only one he has ever belonged to. He certainly is left wing, has never made a secret of that, and most Labour supporters are left wing because it's nominally a left wing party.
Where is the justification for your criticism other than the stuff you've read in newspapers? I'm even handed on issues like this. Nationally I've voted Tory many more times than I've ever voted Labour and always vote Tory in local elections. I don't recycle newspaper opinions as my own, I make my own mind up on the facts, not the innuendo.
The facts are that Ken Livingstone has done a huge amount for London and has been far more successful than his predecessors. He's been far more successful than the government were in the disastrous period under Thatcher when they tried to run London direct, failed and gave up, and infinitely more successful than Boris Johnson who has done almost nothing new, just continued with what Ken started and claimed the credit.
can't comment profoundly about the quality of London's mayors, but it's too bad that team sky coudn't profit from Cancellaras fall - I felt so sorry for him and watching him get on the bike again with that hurt shoulder (don't know if this was broadcasted in England, but here in Switzerland it was) looked so painfull...
Didnt know Weymouth had moved that far East
Yes im being predantic
Also Olympics defintion of countries is weird anyway.
eg there is a Palastine team
cook islands is really part of New Zealand.
and also a group of non country affiliated athletes.
Also not sure why we are called Team GB as Northern Ireland are part of team
(Actually checked and its officially called Team GB and Northern Ireland which has been shortened. Thought we already had a abbreviation (UK) )
Oh and well done to mens gymnastic team it always good to see a person or team perform way above expectations.
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1. Football was held in Cardiff! (very few went to watch!)Sorry Flecc......but are you seriously defending Ken Livingstone ??
Or is this just an example of your well known wit and sense of humour ??
Lynda
2. Not being a Londoner, I cannot truly have any opinion about Boris v Ken.
They both have their detractors, ie Toff Boris and Red Ken.
They can only be judged on the outcome of their performance. If Londoners truly liked Ken, they will get him back, if they prefer Boris, they will keep him.
As an outsider, not even English, I find London a place full of weirdos and fast buck chancers, not fully in touch with life, more in touch with their 'Lifestyle.'
I wish that was true Mike, but the act of adding a huge ring of mainly conservative outer areas that are not really London in any way, i.e. large parts of counties like Surrey, Kent and Hertfordshire etc, has swung the balance so that Londoners can no longer elect who they want. London is mainly left wing, but that ring of outer country areas is predominantly right wing.
London is an incredible mix now, a third of the population not even born in Britain and a huge proportion of the remainder have moved in from other parts of Britain. For years now around 200 to 250 thousands have moved out each year and the same number moved in from elsewhere. If anyone wants to meet genuine Londoners, they'd do just as well looking in other counties or abroad as in London to find them.
You could take that to the extreme and say that London was never a county and the city used to be part of Middlesex, who added the first boroughs to make it left wing?
Without taking exception to anyone in particular's point of view as we're all entitled to our opinions, I'd just like to add a voice of support to Flecc and his acutely accurate description of the make-up of London as it is today.
To those who think they know something of London but clearly don't from some of the views promulgated, I would say this: You cannot possibly understand London and comment objectively on its merits and demerits unless you have both lived there and other places elsewhere long-term.
Just picking up Mussels' point briefly, doesn't the LCC count? The LCC, (London County Council) was the representative body for over 75 years until it was replaced by the GLC.
From memory, Ken Livingstone's "Fares fair" policy of the early '80s was hugely popular with londoners but was curiously deemed illegal by the High Court after Bromley, Bexley or one of the other tory-controlled south London boroughs objected. That was an exercise only made possible through gerrymandering. Londoners were denied the benefits of a great transport policy because a few rich tories didn't actually have a tube station on their doorstep even though none of them would ever consider mixing with the proletariat on public transport, preferring to drive their gas-guzzling 4x4s up to Knightsbridge and park wherever they want, fines meaning nothing to them.
I firmly believe that, as politicians go, Ken Livingstone's heart is in the right place and he does actually care about London and Londoners. As for the tory buffoon, he cares not a jot for anyone other than himself but that's standard operating practice for the two tory parties with which this once-proud nation is now blessed.
Indalo
To those who think they know something of London but clearly don't from some of the views promulgated, I would say this: You cannot possibly understand London and comment objectively on its merits and demerits unless you have both lived there and other places elsewhere long-term.
Just picking up Mussels' point briefly, doesn't the LCC count? The LCC, (London County Council) was the representative body for over 75 years until it was replaced by the GLC.
From memory, Ken Livingstone's "Fares fair" policy of the early '80s was hugely popular with londoners but was curiously deemed illegal by the High Court after Bromley, Bexley or one of the other tory-controlled south London boroughs objected. That was an exercise only made possible through gerrymandering. Londoners were denied the benefits of a great transport policy because a few rich tories didn't actually have a tube station on their doorstep even though none of them would ever consider mixing with the proletariat on public transport, preferring to drive their gas-guzzling 4x4s up to Knightsbridge and park wherever they want, fines meaning nothing to them.
I firmly believe that, as politicians go, Ken Livingstone's heart is in the right place and he does actually care about London and Londoners. As for the tory buffoon, he cares not a jot for anyone other than himself but that's standard operating practice for the two tory parties with which this once-proud nation is now blessed.
Indalo
My point was that London has had big changes over many years, why isolate the most recent one as if it's the only one that matters.
As for the Fares fair policy, it wasn't fair so if the courts didn't rule it illegal then trading standards would have. Livingstone just wants to set the fares so that people in Labour constituencies pay almost nothing for travel. he still wants to do that.
I isolated it for the reason stated, it was jerrymandering. The example you gave wasn't, both most of London and the former Middlesex being politically to the left.
To say the Fares Fair policy was only to favour the labour constituencies is simply not true, it applied across London Transport, to conservative Chelsea and Dulwich as much as to labour Hackney and Tower Hamlets for example. Your previous accusation that Boris Johnson's cut on the cycling budget was to fund the Olympics is equally untrue. Johnson was elected on his promise to cut the overall budget and the cycling cut was the first of many such cuts the moment he took office, not in any way connected to the Olympics at that time.
I'm sticking to the facts Mussels and as I've illustrated, I'm even handed on this with no political axe to grind. I don't agree with many of Ken Livingstone's left wing views, for example I was strongly opposed to his Fares Fair policy when it was first announced, but when it became apparent how successful it was, it showed that I was wrong and Ken was right. There is no absolute right on the left or right of politics and the sensible thing is to take the best ideas from each.
The court ruling that the Fares Fair policy was illegal was politically motivated idiocy, for on that basis the Common Market farms policies are illegal as are all other forms of subsidy. We live in a world dependent on numerous subsidies which favour one against another and our world would fall apart without them. In the EU lip service is paid to the idea that subsidies are unlawful, yet that organisation is the biggest subsidiser of them all. And then there's the foreign aid that the western nations give to the third world, what is that but a subsidy?
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Absolutely totally amazing.....lifting all our spirits and making us proud...well done Team GB.....for someone like me that isnt really into watching a lot of sport....I have been totally mesmerized and amazed by it all......and yes, lost for words....
Lynda
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