Throttle free control system

[Phil the drill]

Out of interest I am wondering if any other manufacturers have ever tried using a similar control system to that adopted by Cytronex? It seems that the simplicity of the system where it is activated by pedaling and the rider has control over two power levels (three if you count 'off' as a level ) has much to commend it. Certainly on the Cytronex bikes it gives tremendous efficiency, although this is doubtless helped by using a motor with very little rolling resistance, coupled to a decent, light bicycle.
Such as system does away with throttles altogether, so saving wrists and allowing custom grips and mirrors to be mounted on handlebars far more easily. In particular it allows current limiting for hill climbing, which should reduce battery stress and increase range.
Given that throttles on most e-bikes have limited functionality and tend to spend most of their time either on full, or off, surely such an alternative simple system makes sense?
Is their any straight forward way of converting an existing throttle controlled e-bike to such as system, 'cos I'd be quite keen to try it. I almost never use the throttle on my bike anyway, and the idea of limiting battery stress (the more so since I live in a very hilly area) hence potentially increasing its' useful life is appealing (especially given current replacement costs) .

Phil

 

[flecc]

Panasonic and Yamaha also have control through pedalling, but with three selectable power levels on the Panasonic, though their pedalling control is more complex and sophisticated.

The outcomes are not directly comparable though, since these are drive through the transmission systems.

The BionX has pedal control but with three selectable power levels and a regeneration setting, but it's motor is direct drive so again a bit different from the Tongxin motor in the Cytronex.

They will all be pedelec soon when the law changes, though many of the current hub-motor bikes will struggle to match the efficiency of the above systems on present evidence.

To convert your bike you'd preferably need some sort of torque sensor to vary the input levels from pedalling. There was a thread on this recently so someone may be able to link to it or advise.
.

 

[Phil the drill]

Thanks Flecc.

I would be interested to see what happens when it all becomes pedelec. The Tongxin system on the Cytronex though does not use a torque sensor, but I believe in effect it uses a high or low powered (selectable) 'cruise control' using the pedal to switch it on and off. I was wondering if a simple system such as that could be rigged to a Bafang motor? I saw that Frank lists a variable power /cruise control system on his web site, but I'm not sure how that works or if it can be used as I have indicated. Unfortunately both my German and Google translate are not up to providing any answers.. .
Does anyone have any experience of these systems?

Phil

 

[Bob_about]

Dial Assist Control

Is their any straight forward way of converting an existing throttle controlled e-bike to such as system, 'cos I'd be quite keen to try it. I almost never use the throttle on my bike anyway, and the idea of limiting battery stress (the more so since I live in a very hilly area) hence potentially increasing its' useful life is appealing (especially given current replacement costs) .
Phil

Hi Phil,

I had the throttle on my Ezee Sprint removed and replaced with a dial assist control at the time I purchased it. It took Andrew at OnBike 10 miunutes to swop it over and it connected into the existing wiring loom as a straight swop.

Normally the bike operates as pedelec or throttle.

The dial assist lets the rider select how much power to access from the battery in either mode and can make a considerable difference on battery range. Set to 50-60% I can preserve alot of capacity in the batteries even after 40 miles, set to 100% I get a faster journey time, but can use almost all the available power.

The adaptation has a couple of quirks which need getting used to - there is an ability to "start in gear" if you switch on with the dial up and in "throttle" mode which sets the wheel spinning! But once you get used to ensuring the dial is down when turning on I think its a great option and avoids straining wrists or hands keepiong throttles in the same position for long periods.

I`m in early days on my cycle commuting and still have alot to learn, but so far I think this is a good option.

All the best

BoB_about

 

[flecc]

I think the Cytronex system gets away with not using a torque sensor by the controller keeping the power within bounds. When the bafang type motors are used in this way with pedelec control they've often given responses that are far too severe, alarming riders. Therefore manufacturers often have selectable power levels as Wisper do in some cases and also eZee with the EAF multi-setting control, this latter being in effect a stepped throttle.

My Quando based Q-bike has the most powerful bafang version and I dislike it on pedelec only since it can be dangerous. In one moment of carelessness when I knocked a pedal with the bike switched on and pedelec selected, the bike punched a hole in a cupboard door. A Quando owner posted a similar experience not long ago. Not good for fine control in crowded traffic, so I stick to throttle only.
.

 

[Andrew harvey]

I've several control sets, all pretty crude, that had fixed but selectable output levels.
My latest is shop bought. It comes with a pedal sensor and a neatish handle bar switch, with 4 battery level LEDs, an up and down button to control the output, indicator lamps to tell you which setting is selected, off, low, medium, high and throttle only (pedal activated throttle only). It also has a 6kph button, I've never tried this as I took the throttle of after day one without thought for it's use.
It's available here Der Umbausatz
and looks like this
http://www.das-elektrorad.de/Bilder/display.JPG

I like it, it works a treat and replaces a standard Hall effect throttle, or it can make a throttle only bike into a Euro legal throttle bike.

 

[Phil the drill]

Ah, Thanks Andrew.
You've effectively answered my questions about Frank's control system - that is the one I was looking at, but was unsure if I could use it as a straight throttle replacement.
I will definitely give it a try. I like the idea of losing the throttle, it will allow me to fit a pair of nice comfy grips and handlebar end mirrors should be much easier to fit. By the look of it though I may have to change my gear selector to a short grip shifter (shimano revoshift) or the controller may foul up with the current TX51 gear selector. Did you have any problems with this?

Thanks, Phil.

 

[andyh2]

I got a controller, thumb throttle and 3 speed switch for standard sensorless controller (scroll down below the pic of the throttle replacement one). It's very discreet size and works great.

Couple of revolutions of the cranks and the power comes in. Position 1 for setting off to prevent lurching and over stressing Tongxin motor. Position 2 for steep hills and 'pootling'. Position 3 for everything else. Better than the throttle 99% of the time. I've kept the throttle for those odd occasions, but probably wouldn't miss it if it weren't there. The pedelec sensor is just sensing crank rotation not torque.

 

[Andrew harvey]

Fitting the controller to the left bar was no problem for me as I use a Nexus 7, I have twin rings on the front, a 52/44 but have never got around to fitting a front mech, the steepest hill around here is a 1 in 7 which I can just manage on the middle power setting. By contrast a hill labeled as 10% I can manage in low power, which gives a flat road speed of about 9/10 mph with me turning the cranks in low gear rather than pedaling, with detectable assistance up to about 13or so, when I actualy put some effort in, above this you have to switch to medium power, high power I only use to maintain speed on long shallow hills.
This approach seems to extend battery range considerably.

The controller can be set fairly well in of the grips as you only have to reach it for power changes. The default setting is low power as you turn it on which is good.
Overall I recomend them, I have built bikes for customers using them as the sole means of control and they have all being happy, but I have always being in favour of the European, power only whilst pedaling approach.

 

[Phil the drill]

I have always been in favour of the European, power only whilst pedaling approach.

Couldn't agree more.

I bought my e-bike to help me get fit again for cycling and to use on those days where it is just too miserable to ride a conventional bike (windy, rainy and when I have a lot of stuff to carry around) or when I have to get to work reasonably 'fresh'. The frequent obsession with throttle's only and speed seem odd to me. If I want that I get on my motorbike, a hell of a lot more fun for that sort of thing.... .
It's just not what e-bikes are good at..

Phil