Titanium bike. ultimate donor bike?

Tim · Apr 27, 2010

Those bikes are gorgeous, a selection were on display at the Cycle Show. Their pale gold gleam is irresistible.

flecc · Apr 27, 2010

eddieo said:
This and new wisper kit with battery in frame may be the way to go.

Or why not buy the new Torq T1 with motor and integrated battery already?

Oh, I forgot, that one shouldn't use a titanium frame.

eddieo said:
Why titanium may I ask when everyone else favours carbon? I have titanium eye glasses and bought my son a very nice titanium watch for his birthday as he has had a slight skin allergy......but carbon is the choice of all high end bike manufacturers

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flecc · Apr 27, 2010

. I'm just teasing Eddie!

Titanium has been around on exotic stuff for some while, but opinions are mixed on it's use. Some critics maintain there's no weight gain on a strength for strength basis, others say it's just as uncomfortable in a frame as alloy, some claim composites are better.

Ultimately all the alternatives are probably just a way of making expensive but desirable premium bikes to extract more money from us!

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HarryB · Apr 27, 2010

eddieo said:
Tony! I am surprised! lol We are at different ends of knowledge spectrum? I said I had never heard of titanium bikes and only discovered they exist because of Ezee's news and a little research......

Now to your 1st question : Probably because of battery position......Without any evidence to the contrary, I doubt it will be in frame, and probably behind seat post like most others. I have never liked this set up one little bit

Or the ezee kit with a lump of a battery with no real thought put into where to position it. The wisper kit will offer a cheaper alternative to BionX I hope. so a complete Van Nicholas Zion Titanium start at £1700 plus whatever kit and a nice bike at a decent weight

I have seen the titanium bikes but as much out of my budget as carbon. Anyway I have changed my mind about the kits - Bionx is way too expensive for what it is. Ezee as you mention, a bag on the back of rack is the worst place for a heavy battery. Cannot wait for the Wisper as that could be a year or so away. I will probably go for the BH emotion sports max if the Wisper Alpino doesn't suit. One thing I found is that you can have fun looking for base bike for the kit to attach to...as you have found.

http://www.ezeebike.com/Torq_T1.pdf

HarryB · Apr 27, 2010

The problem with David is that he is wildly optimistic about delivery dates (still waiting for the Alpino - due early this year) so if he says spring/summer it is more likely to be autumn/winter - actually I would have thought with a kit the delays will be more (and look at the Cytronex kit - how long have we been waiting for that). I agree the combination is tempting - the dapush is not a strong performer but it is discrete and reasonable to ride.

I would try the Panasonic before you rule it out (or in). Bit of an aquired taste and very dependent on the gearing the bike uses. Works well with the derailleurs and Alfine but not so well with the clunky 7 speed nexus (avoid). I got rid of my agattu as I hated it. I worked out it was having to stop pedalling for a couple of seconds every time you change a gear to avoid the hub jamming on change up (hopeless in London traffic).

I am not after the carbon Emotion but the disc braked hybrid at £2000.

Xcytronex · Apr 27, 2010

eddieo said:
Yes gearing........really noticed on my first proper ride in a while yesterday that my 905SE needs an 8th gear (mine is permanently de restricted) I can get about 17 - 18 but would like the 20 mph

Best get a Torq 1 -prices probably fairly good on Ebay. With the excellent new 14A battery Ezee provide you can easily exceed 23 m.p.h on the flat -with lots of power for hills.Good 25 mile + range although you can double that if you wish to restrict the motor.

Chief eZee Power · May 1, 2010

you are not up-dated

eddieo said:
Tony! I am surprised! lol We are at different ends of knowledge spectrum? I said I had never heard of titanium bikes and only discovered they exist because of Ezee's news and a little research......

Now to your 1st question : Probably because of battery position......Without any evidence to the contrary, I doubt it will be in frame, and probably behind seat post like most others. I have never liked this set up one little bit

Or the ezee kit with a lump of a battery with no real thought put into where to position it. The wisper kit will offer a cheaper alternative to BionX I hope. so a complete Van Nicholas Zion Titanium start at £1700 plus whatever kit and a nice bike at a decent weight

Dear Friends, I live, eat and dream in the bicycle manufacturing world now, right in the center of it, and in fact not too long ago China was of course the most puritanical bicyles world, now unfortuantely given up to cars.

Van Nicholas as shown here is in fact made by a company called "Beijing Hang Lun Sports Apparatus Co., Ltd" in Beijing China of course. When I started my T1 project I have discussed with them. Unfortunately they don't have the skill to make the fork in Titanium that I wanted. Look at the photo supplied here on this thread, WHAT is the FORK. Otherwise they are on Carbon fork. I picked someone better than Van Nicholas mfrs.

My dream was to design, built and supply the most beautiful and long lasting ebike, something that would attract more people for ebike. It is like a store's window front display, people come in attracted by this, but not neccessary he or she will buy this expensive luxury item, but buy something within his means. There are also those who comes into the store and asked what's THE BEST. I have things like this reported to me by my dealer in LA, USA big movie producer that buys 10 eZee for X'mas presents and buys an Optibike just because it is $8000 and not cheaper. Then there there is this chief engineer on a 30 million $ yacht that call me for something that is not going to corrode in the ocean environment for his boss.

3 years ago, I started working on this. Why Titanium instead of Carbon ?
It is far easier to make Carbon frames than titanium especially with mass production it is just molding. Titanium frames need to be hand crafted.
Titanium rides far comfortably for the modulus they have, Carbon is like riding on glass. Then while Carbon composites is excellent in most physicals but then to be brittle, and could go catastrophic failures on impact. Titanium is next to destruction proof and far more comfortable and beautiful.

I will take the issue about our eZee Kit another time.

Thank you, and very truly yours,
Chief eZee Operator.

emissions-free · May 1, 2010

What's so special about the Dapush or Dapu setup? I've tried it and didn't find it any better or worse than other stuff that is available from Bafang or Ananda. I found it very similar in size and performance to the Ananda 108 motor, smaller than the Bafang front motor but not as quiet. I believe it's slightly more expensive than an equivalent Bafang setup but it's hardly a high end premium product IMO and isn't a better performer IMO.

There are also lots of batteries coming online that are packaged to fit within the frame triangle. I can think of at least 3 commonly available generic cases that are being used by the battery pack manufacturers in China.

These are all readily available parts, you just contact the manufacturer and order them, maybe 50 or 100 pieces MOQ.

HarryB · May 1, 2010

I cannot make my mind up about kits - are they really for the tinkerer or hobbyist who likes to make things then modify them etc. Or can they be mainstream for people like me who just want a decent bike and a decent motor set-up. There is nothing on the market that is great at the moment - the bionx comes pretty close - easy to set up and well integrated - but they are taking the mickey with those prices. So you can get a ready made bike with the kit integrated for less than the cost of the kit suggesting that they expect you to pay a big premium as a hobbyist.

Other kits fail in the battery integration - expecting you to ride with a kit bag on your bike - like the Ezee and that is a premium product judging by the price. I think I will stick to a ready made bike for now.

By the way I think the dapush is OK but it is not very powerful or quiet. In its favour it does look neat for those who appreciate such things.

Alex728 · May 1, 2010

in England I think kits are a niche market at present. I know its a bit of a national stereotype but it hardly surprises me that it seems Germans and Chinese (as well as rich Americans with "dens" with whole workshops) tend to buy most of the kits...

in my peer group (20s to 40s) a lot of people lack the skills to maintain a push bike, let alone convert one into an ebike, and expect shops or more skilled friends to do this.

flecc · May 1, 2010

I also think the kit market is just too small, other than in the USA, and in that market they often seem happy to have large batteries in bags perched high on carriers, judging from the many conversions I've seen.

It's also likely that supplying complete e-bikes can be more profitable as well as less troublesome.
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emissions-free · May 1, 2010

There's a nice looking cylindrical battery pack that is now becoming available that has a mounting to go onto the washer bottle. This is a 36V, 9Ah Li Ion pack. Also seen some 7Ah packs that are a bit smaller that bolt onto the seat tube or could go somewhere else.

The kits that Bafang offer are very nicely finished with a single multicore connecting all the controls which all come to a single little box. They are not as cheap as the ebay kits but they they are still very reasonably priced. The big rear motor they do (BPM Climber) is a very nice motor for someone who needs a bit of torque for the hills and comes in 250, 350 and 500W with matching controllers. Bafang are also bringing out a sub 2kg motor as well, but the only place I've seen it so far was on their stand at last weeks Shanghai Bike Show

I do agree that a big bulky battery on the top of a rack is not ideal but it's horses for courses. If you want a bike that will do 40mph and give you 30-50km range at a descent pace (maybe 1KWhr) it's gonna be a little bulky. My bike does that and the total weight of the kit added to the bike is about 17kg, including dual hub motors, dual controllers and 48V 20Ah of A123 prismatics. Almost 5KW max power and 68kph max speed on the flat

If you only want a small assist then a Lithium Polymer pack can do that with less that 3kg, maybe even 2kg and very small dimensions. There are motors that weigh only 2kg. I made a bike up for a friend which consisted of a budget aluminium framed bike (14.something kg), 36V 6Ah LifePO4 Pack (abt 3.5kg) and Bafang front motor (~3kg) with their kit. Total weight was ~22kg. With a 2kg motor and a Lithium Polymer Pack even on that budget frame it would be between 20 and 21kg.

Wisper Bikes · May 4, 2010

Wisper Kit

Just a quick update on the Wisper Kit

Whilst in China we tested the first pre production prototype and wow what a piece of kit! We had it fitted to a carbon soft tail bike in about 15 minutes and quite honestly when I tried the bike out it was amazing, you would not know you had a 360Wh battery strapped to it until you turned on the power!

We have some streamlining to do to the case but it will be ready and tested for launch at Eurobike although I will post some images here as soon as I have them.

We are using carbon matrix for the clamp, OK it's is more complicated to build than titanium but the weight, strength and rigidity are perfect. Hence the use in formula 1 cars and grand prix racing motorcycles.

All the best

David

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