Trek Fx+ test ride

[flecc]

as a newcomer to the world of electric bikes i don't really get why the kit prices seem relatively high in comparison to the finished article e-bikes. for instance i see the ezee battery kit for £900 at onbike but then see the range of ezee bikes beginning at £1000 upwards. I also see the alien battery kits something like only £120-130 quid cheaper than the gents special bike.

is it....

economies of scale in the production process?

or

the addition of batteries and motors to cheap bikes?

The upper range bikes use the same motor and batteries as the kit.

Economy of scale may have a slight effect since kits sell far fewer than e-bikes, but also it's necessary to look at the content.

The components of the kit are those used on the Forza and Torq models, both at £1450, so the difference of £555 is reasonable for the bike part built with better quality components and of more substantial construction for the added weight of the electric components. There's also the cost of the additional assembly and test time of an e-bike.

Therefore I don't think there is a mismatch of pricing between kit and bike.
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[nab]

makes sense....

 

[nab]

The Trek's BionX motor is a hub motor so it only has it's one gearing ratio, in this case one to one and it's speed limit is fixed by design.

Because a crank drive motor has the road speed limit decided by how fast it's turning in the bike's top gear, changing the sprocket on the rear hub for a smaller one means the motor is fooled into thinking it's doing 15 mph when in fact it's fixed turning speed is driving the back wheel faster.
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if i went for the ezee conversion kit or alien conversion kit, does this still apply? how do these kits measure the cut out points for speed?

it seems that twinning a large capacity battery like the ezee 36V14Ah with a change of sprocket would enable me to achieve both a higher speed and also complete my journey with juice left to spare. am i on the right lines?

 

[HarryB]

if i went for the ezee conversion kit or alien conversion kit, does this still apply? how do these kits measure the cut out points for speed?

it seems that twinning a large capacity battery like the ezee 36V14Ah with a change of sprocket would enable me to achieve both a higher speed and also complete my journey with juice left to spare. am i on the right lines?

No because they are hub motors and not crank drive systems. Your legs and the motor do not share the same gearing. Hub motors tend to be internally geared so that they run out of power at the legal speed of 25kph - there are a few that are restricted to this speed and can thus be de-restricted to achieve more than 25kph. The Ezee kit maybe restricted and you will have to check with Onbike - either way round you will have plenty of juice to cover your return journey with the 14Ah battery.

 

[nab]

ok thanks harry. i will talk to them about that soon.

 

[eddieo]

Neil, Ezee have a very chequered past with poor reliability, poor back up and poor warranty. They have no network of dealers or service centres, so when something needs attention it will be a pain unless you are local to their dealer...

Ask the likes of Harry b if he would have one again. Plus the resale value is very poor. There is a bit more to e bikes then which model has better gears and brakes which the Chief keeps carping on about ad nauseam. the whole ownership experience and resale has to be looked at

Do your homework, use the forums search function and try some bikes. and ask away!

 

[nab]

ok. moved this post from the wrong thread. thanks for the tip eddieo

They have no network of dealers or service centres, so when something needs attention it will be a pain unless you are local to their dealer...

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being in cornwall kind of levels out the playing field in that respect. the nearest wisper dealer is in barnstaple. sounds close right? but it's actually two and a half mile drive away. other than that my only choices for electric bike here are giant, powabyke and trek. I've tried those three and the wisper in barnstaple was the clear all round winner, although i liked aspects of all the other bikes, particularly the trek.

but yes i need to try the panasonics and an ezee before buying.

 

[fishingpaul]

Neil, Ezee have a very chequered past with poor reliability, poor back up and poor warranty. They have no network of dealers or service centres, so when something needs attention it will be a pain unless you are local to their dealer...

Ask the likes of Harry b if he would have one again. Plus the resale value is very poor. There is a bit more to e bikes then which model has better gears and brakes which the Chief keeps carping on about ad nauseam. the whole ownership experience and resale has to be looked at

Do your homework, use the forums search function and try some bikes. and ask away!

The resale value was poor due to battery problems,the same reliable 14ah battery that wisper uses is the standard one supplied now with the bikes,and no longer seems to be a problem.in derestricted form they are probably the most powerfull available.

 

[HarryB]

Neil, Ezee have a very chequered past with poor reliability, poor back up and poor warranty. They have no network of dealers or service centres, so when something needs attention it will be a pain unless you are local to their dealer...

Ask the likes of Harry b if he would have one again. Plus the resale value is very poor. There is a bit more to e bikes then which model has better gears and brakes which the Chief keeps carping on about ad nauseam. the whole ownership experience and resale has to be looked at

Do your homework, use the forums search function and try some bikes. and ask away!

Well I would consider an Ezee but for a few reasons:

They don't have anything suitable at the moment. I also asked for assurance that the wiring has been upgraded - I had terrible problems with water ingress and corrosion of the terminal under the BB. Of course a two year guarantee on the battery is a must.....and if it broke down all the time support needs to be improved .....and I wish Chief Ezee would stop knocking other manufacturer's products etc...

 

[nab]

all good and useful info guys, thanks.

only realised last night that the raleigh dover is actually the kalkhoff in disguise! that raises the possibility of me finding one in the west country. good. I read flecc's online review of the kalkhoff last night somewhat in depth is in understatement! great stuff.

was doing some hard thinking last night and I may have to rule out the dawes horizon conversion. The reason being that I have recently moved to my house which backs onto the old portreath/devoran tramway which is an absurdly useful track for me as you can get most of the way towards both truro and falmouth off road.

The track is good but fairly rough in places and I think, having cycled it again yesterday, that suspension forks and saddle are an absolute must. Without it i fear that I would be avoiding the track altogether; a great pity when I can walk out of my back gate straight onto it. The dawes is strong with its steel frame but is not exactly comfortable off road; having no suspension at all. So I think that if I was getting to the point of fitting new suspension forks, handlebars, new gear levers, new brakes, new seat post, new rack for battery and battery conversion kit then, hey, really, come on it's time to get a new bike!

Also, the coastal winds are softened on the track by the high hedgerows so it's an all round winner really. very dark though so proper, proper lights are a must.

can anyone comment on the suspension abilities of the wisper or kalkhoffs?

i must admit that until I try a Raleigh/kalkhoff I am leaning towards the wisper now as it has the derestrict button, large battery capacity and also, with the unisex sloping frame means that my lovely lady should hopefully be able to use it too (5 foot 3" though she is). As I was looking for something to replace the necessity of a second car this is important; if I take the car out somewhere, the she has a powerful electric bike at home to use. I am convinced that she would love the throttle!

 

[eddieo]

both wisper and Kalkhoffs good in there own way...I prefer hub motor bikes with powerful batteries you may not, you need to try them?

hedges make me nervous,you will need to invest in Marathon Plus tyres as they help prevent punctures

what other e bikes does the Barnstaple dealer stock?

 

[nab]

the barnstaple dealer also stocks the giant twist and sunlova.

In my local area I have tried giant, trek and powabyke. not bad for down here.

there is a giant dealer near to me in Helston, with a very enthusiastic and friendly bunch who were offering seemingly very good back-up on the twist. They said if anything went wrong with the motor they would replace it brand new with no quibbles as they themselves aren't electricians.

I like the twist's slot in battery holder so you can easily carry a spare; they also quoted me £314 for a replacement battery which seems quite good.

the twist seemed like a bit of a plodder though, and when i hit 15mph the sound of the freewheel ticking over was really loud, even on a busy road. it's a nice feeling, comfy bike though.

 

[nab]

according to my local bike shop, the raleigh dover will be available down here in june, july.

can i wait?! aaarggh....i have electric bike fever!

 

[eddieo]

try the wisper's again

 

[nab]

i'm getting the distinct impression that, to say the least, you are a bit of a wisper fan eddieo!!

 

[eddieo]

i'm getting the distinct impression that, to say the least, you are a bit of a wisper fan eddieo!!

You may say that....... But I can hardly wish to appear partisan

Entirely based on: buying a second hand wisper in 2008, having rear wheel rebuilt without hassle under warranty (which bikes have transferable warranty's ensuring decent resale, if you trade up or sell on I wonder?)

I then bought a 705 for my wife had a few minor problems with that ...again dealt with efficiently. I then sold my bike on ebay, so 15 months e biking cost me approx £120 (difference between purchase and selling price) and have bought another 905 for myself. Soooo Wisper are not only enjoyable but make sound financial sense IMO.

 

[nab]

Soooo Wisper are not only enjoyable but make sound financial sense IMO.

like a macintosh computer then...

i am thinking though that if i go for the wisper 905 I would almost certainly want a more spaced out gear sprocket arrangement. with the default sprocket set-up i'm not sure how it would handle some of the hills round here.

the alpino appears better in this regard with it's 8 alfine gears but, with the bigger frame size, it would be unable to double as a second form of transport for both me and my lady. so a 905 with altered gearing seems like a good option. can someone recommend a sprocket size set-up?

is it easy enough to do? although having cycled (both city commuting and touring wales, scotland, france, north england, holland) all my life, I have never attempted anything like this, mostly because the dawes has treated me so well and I've had so few problems.

BTW when i tried the wisper I didn't want to take it back to the shop. i just wanted to keep going and explore and arrived back at the shop with a big grin on my face.

just located a wisper dealer in plymouth! only 1hr 30min on the train or in car; and it's close to the station. visiting plymouth is always a good opportunity to go the fantastic fish and chip restaurant on the barbican!

 

[nab]

BTW this is the current set-up of the wisper 905

Gears - Shimano Alivio derailleur with 7 speed Shimano mega range 14-16-18-20-22-24-34T

 

[eddieo]

cant help with the technical.......not a clue