twist impressions.

[nigel]

Hi flecc
took out twist today for the first time well it was sunny
first impressions were mixed their was a rubbing sound coming from the motor this continued throughout the ride not sure if it is because the bike is new but the bike is a nice ride i was surprised that it is not very fast just a gentle push not sure if thats how its meant to be maybe it will improve as i run it in i hope so.
nigel in southampton.

 

[flecc]

Hi Nigel

The motor makes a slight rhythmic sound on each pedal stroke, that's normal and tends to settle as it runs in. To get the best power, slow down the pedalling rate, then the motor helps more. If you pedal fast, the motor will help less.

So basically:

Change up to pedal slowly for most help and least range.

Change down to pedal fast for least help and best range.

Experience counts with the Twists, once you get used to it you'll find it easy to get what you want from it.

 

[nigel]

nigel

thanks flecc
i got that but at no time today did i feel i got near 15mph i could feel the power helping but not much speed i thought it would be a bit quicker maybe i have used my powabyke for to long and got a bit lazy
nigel southampton

 

[flecc]

No, it's very different from a Powabyke, which is virtually what we used to call an Autocycle when they had petrol engines. In other words, the bike part of those is a bit of a joke, it's like a light motorbike with pedals. You'll know that you wouldn't want to try to pedal the Powabyke without power, unless down a hill!

By contrast, the Twist is the lightest fully equipped electric bike, is very much like an ordinary bike and is just as easy to pedal. That's why the on/off switch is uniquely on the handlebars, since power isn't needed all the time. When I leave home, I wouldn't dream of switching on the power until I need it when the first hill is reached, until then there's no point. When it's switched on for a hill is when the real value of the Twist shows, since a change down puts the power where it's needed, low geared for hill climbing. It's a cyclist's bike, but with discreet added power for when the going gets tough, as on hills or with headwinds. By contrast, all the other electric bikes I've ridden aren't pleasant to ride without the motor on, and that's why the switch on those isn't on the handlebars.

Incidentally, the Twist's power is in accordance with European law, it phases down as it approaches 15 mph, so from about 13.5 mph it starts declining.

 

[nigel]

nigel

Hi flecc
yes you are quite right in that the twist is a true pedelec also good for fitness puff puff oh well i think i will start saving up for a ezee torq and any big hills i just push it up nigel.

 

[flecc]

I think you'll find the Twist will grow on you Nigel, but it's a shock to the system after a Powabyke, a real case of chalk and cheese!

If not, there's no problem since the Twist is in such demand that people have been shopping abroad for one. You'd have no problem selling it on a genuine very low mileage. No need to push a Torq uphill though. After the month or two you take to decide on whether you want to keep to the Twist, there'll be the new season's bikes arriving, and there could easily be something that's very suitable for you. We've had a flush of low powered bikes with hub motors and there's more than enough of those around, so any new models are likely to be at the other end of the scale, more powerful alternatives.

 

[flecc]

P.S.

Get used to it for a while, and if you find it handles the hills you climb easily, you could gear it higher just by swapping the rear sprocket.

At the moment it's a 16 tooth, with power phasing down from 13.5 mph, cutting at 15 mph.

A 15 tooth instead would phase down from 14.4 and cut out at 16 mph, but would make you pedal a bit harder on the hills.

A 14 tooth would phase down from roughly 15.5 and cut out at 17 mph, but you'd have to pedal much harder on the climbs.

Get used to it before making any decision, but if you want to change the sprocket, any cycle dealer can do it easily and cheaply.

Fitting an SRAM 5 speed enables you to have your cake and eat it, very low gears for hills and assistance to 17 mph.

 

[nigel]

nigel

Hi
flecc thats food for thought as you say their are options and yes i will continue to use bike and run it in and in the meantime as you say see what comes out this year nigel southampton.

 

[nigel]

nigel

Hi
flecc took out twist again today as you said it seemed better and i enjoyed it and got more used to it think i will keep it now?
Also while out on travels popped into cycle shop for bike pump and started to natter about leccy bikes as you do and was told that they used to sell the yamaha which was also very much like the giant bikes but alas they didnt sell very well he also said what was so good about both bikes was apart from the motors the rest of the bikes were normal which meant they could do most jobs.

Then the best news he also can change 3 speed nexus for 5 speed or 7 speed sram i thought 7 speed range might be to much for motor so have gone for 5 speed which will cost about £180 total. nigel southampton.

 

[flecc]

That's a great price Nigel, go for it. The SRAM P5 is definitely the best option, the seven is nowhere near as good a hub gear, and not as tough. Get him to put on a 17 tooth sprocket in place of the standard 19 tooth. That will still give you a 34" bottom gear which is 21% lower than the present low gear, making for very easy hill climbing, while assisting up to 17 mph.

The Yamaha was a good bike and somewhat similar, but with a lot less power. It was at a time before electric bikes were really taking off and Yamaha decided to discontinue it.

 

[JohnInStockie]

That's a great price Nigel, go for it. The SRAM P5 is definitely the best option, the seven is nowhere near as good a hub gear, and not as tough. Get him to put on a 17 tooth sprocket in place of the standard 19 tooth. That will still give you a 34" bottom gear which is 21% lower than the present low gear, making for very easy hill climbing, while assisting up to 17 mph.

The Yamaha was a good bike and somewhat similar, but with a lot less power. It was at a time before electric bikes were really taking off and Yamaha decided to discontinue it.

Flecc

I dont understand your improvement suggestions there. Can you explain in laymans terms exactly what you mean by "fit a 17 tooth sprocket.." . I dont understand where on the bike you mean (although by 'rear' I assume not on the handlebars) or what part that would be (a cog of some sort I guess).

Thanks

John

 

[flecc]

Hi John

It's the chain sprocket on the SRAM hub gear. Making it 2 teeth smaller shifts all the five gears upwards. You could also do that on your SRAM P5 if you find that you can climb any of the hills you meet with ease in your bottom gear and can manage them with the second gear.

The comment on lowering Nigel's low gear doesn't apply to your's, it refers to Nigel's present 3 speed hub.

 

[JohnInStockie]

Thanks Flecc, I now understand better. What would be the best number of teeth for the SRAM P5 then as I am finding that I would like to be able to go a bit faster. In fact, when I get into fifth and am pedeling quite fast I am only doing a mere 18-19 mph, and I can feel that I personally could pedel MUCH more, but the gear range just doesnt have it.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

John

 

[flecc]

The same 17 tooth sprocket as I advised for Nigel when he gets his SRAM P5 John. You'll get assist almost to 17 mph, and be able to pedal to as much as 25 mph. On the other hand, the bottom gear will be raised, so only do this if you are very comfortable with the hill climbing at present.

 

[Flying Kiwi]

John I have a 17 tooth rear sprocket on my 2006 Twist Comfort already (it came with it new so I suspect yours will too). Even with this sprocket I also belive the gearing is to high in top and I'm going flat out like an egg beater to get over 22 mph, let alone 25 so I managed to obtain the SRAM 16 tooth dished sprocket and will be trying this out on Monday or Wednesday next week. I'll post back here with my results.
Nigel, will your bike be done by then or would that be to late to influence the sprocket decision (depending how it goes)?

 

[nigel]

nigel

Hi
flying kiwi i have already paid for parts and now are waiting for them to arrive which the dealer will then let me know.
Not sure about 16 tooth sprocket flecc seemed to think the 17 tooth sprocket was the best but good luck i wait for for your report hope its good news.nigel.southampton.

 

[flecc]

I have a 17 tooth rear sprocket on my 2006 Twist Comfort already (it came with it new so I suspect yours will too). Even with this sprocket I also belive the gearing is to high in top and I'm going flat out like an egg beater to get over 22 mph, let alone 25

Hi Flying Kiwi, I think you meant the gearing is too low in top, if you're pedalling too fast for your liking you'll need to gear it higher to slow that down. Is your chainwheel the same 37 tooth as on the Twist? I don't reach the "eggbeater" stage until 26 mph with the SRAM P5 and 17 tooth sprocket. Nigel's is a Twist with the Shimano 3 speed at present as mine was, hence my recommendation with the SRAM. Í didn't want to leave him too high geared for the hills he has.

 

[Flying Kiwi]

Hi Flying Kiwi, I think you meant the gearing is too low in top, if you're pedalling too fast for your liking you'll need to gear it higher to slow that down.

Yes thats correct flecc I got my highs and lows mixed up. I think the bike needs taller gearing so each revolution of the pedal cranks makes it go further... or is that shorter?

Is your chainwheel the same 37 tooth as on the Twist?

According to the Comfort specific bill of materials the chainwheel is a '37T UCP FOR NBI POWER MOTOR' and the motor sprocket '14T UCP FOR NBI POWER MOTOR' so yes it looks to be the same as the Twist Lite in that regard.

I don't reach the "eggbeater" stage until 26 mph with the SRAM P5 and 17 tooth sprocket.

My tyres are still the original lower... (thinking carefully now ) yes lower profile ones fitted to the bike rather than those especially puncture resistant ones that you have. The slightly larger circumference of your wheels as a result of the different tyres will mean your net result is a slightly faster bike but with slightly less hill climbing ability than with the original tyres.

Nigel's is a Twist with the Shimano 3 speed at present as mine was, hence my recommendation with the SRAM.

I dont know what sort of tyres are fitted to that bike but I certainly agree with you that greater gear range is whats most needed. Although I've also heard bad things about the S7 compared to the P5, I've yet to try out an S7 equipped Twist (such as most Comfort STs in 2006) but my P5 equipped bike is much better at going up hills than the 3 speed lite I test rode.

Í didn't want to leave him too high geared for the hills he has.

Nor me which is why I'm going to test the sprocket out first and report back during my next few days off. If it is a goodie (and I'll try it up some very steep hills too), given that the Lite is lighter than the Comfort, it should still be fine with Nigels bike. If thats the case, hopefully there may be time to make a last minute change.
Well done on getting that motor by the way. It always seems to be the case that the auctions I would be interested in, end right in the middle of business hours and I only become aware of them after they've finished. I'm hoping that bike shop has other bits to follow in due course.

 

[JohnInStockie]

I must admit, I am quite surprised by how quickly I reach the point of pedeling faster than Homer Simpson on a mini-bike. Sometimes I dont even get to the 15-16 mph before Im sweating, not from the exertion, just from throwing my legs in a circle without any force against them from the road. It does feel like I am riding downhill in first gear sometimes.

IMHO this seems to be a major design issue with all electric bikes, the lack of a FRONT Crank gearing mechanism (as per a normal racer or MTB). Our bikes are either good hill climbers, or capable of going fast, but not both it seems.

Surely it must be possible for someone to design a cassette system of some sort that could accomplish this, its not rocket science, we just need to keep the chain in the right place. COME ON ALL YOU BIKE COMPANIES - GET DESIGNING (especially you 50 cycles, let me buy a bike from you that can do this )

John

 

[flecc]

Already done John, the SRAM DualDrive. This is a derailleur combined with a 3 speed hub, so the hub takes the place of the triple chainwheel, giving 27 gears with a 9 sprocket cassette for example. Here's a link illustrating it:

Fisher Outdoor Leisure Limited: H2136: Sram Dual Drive Hub 36H (Hub Only)

Having said that, electric bikes are electric assist, so it's important the rider and motor gearing stay in line with each other, either both high, both low, or both middling. That way the power of motor and rider combine to best effect. Putting the rider's gearing out of synch with the motor just makes both ineffectual. The old saying applies, "United we stand, divided we fall".