Was EddieO right?

[Kudoscycles]

When I first joined this forum there was a direct speaking guy named EddieO and whilst he was outspoken with his views he was respected on this forum.
Eddie hated heavy batteries mounted on the rear rack,he thought they should be mounted on the down tube.
Eddie hated front axle power,declaring it causing understeer especially on wet roads.
Eddie hated weight,he referred to anything weighing more than 25 kilos as tanks.
Eddie hated anything that looked chunky,he wanted slimline frames
Eddie hated throttles,preferring torque sensor driven.
Eddie hated bikes that looked utilitarian,wanting production style.

Eddie was put into detention so many times that he finally crossed the good manners line and was expelled.
But for me,and I was often the butt of his comments,he was ahead of the technology curve and his desire to achieve lighter,better balanced,better looking e-bikes I respected and in fact designed the current Kudos range around those ideals. Yet some of the popular bikes currently desired on this forum are heavy,badly balanced and to Eddie's eyes tanks.
Have we gone backwards in design?
KudosDave

 

[Deleted member 4366]

He also rode a bike with a big phallus sticking out of it, and he was the only one that couldn't see it.

Joking aside, there was some sense in what he was saying, but you can't exclude a bike because it doesn't meet your ideals. If a bike goes how you want it to, that should be enough.

 

[mike killay]

Eddie was totally intolerant of anything that did not meet his ideals.
He was particularly insulting about the Tonaro range which I find to be good looking and efficient.
He was also very pro German to the exclusion of other makes. Maybe because he did not like throttles for some odd reason, and the mighty Bosch do not have throttles thereby meeting his total approval.
My ideals are 180 degrees opposite to his, but I did not find the need to hurl gratuitous insults at his preferences.

 

[Kudoscycles]

D8veh...I could have put money on you being the first to respond to my posting,flecc will soon have an opinion,no doubt.
The late Uffa Fox,respected yacht designer once said that the only form of transport where weight was an advantage was a road roller.
Weight hardly gets a mention now but 3 years ago the forum was paranoid about reducing weight,in all forms of transport boats,cars,planes are all getting lighter with subsequent savings in energy costs, yet we don't seem to care that with heavy batteries,heavy motors,heavy frames some of these bikes are high 20 KGs.,I picked up an A2B at a show,it weighed almost 40 KGs.
Weight saving costs and it gets progressively more expensive the lighter bikes become,my son in law has just spent many hundreds of pounds on special cranks to save 100 gms off his Bianchi.
I'm drafting the ideal current Pedelecs forum bike,20 Ah battery hanging out the back,
700 watt motor driving the front axle,throttle only drive,cheapie heavy frame and cheapie gears,pedals are redundant-footrests only,weight kept under 30 kilos,cost about £600.00...,is that really what we want???
It was a big effort to get these bikes down to 22 KGs,without resorting to expensive parts and our folder down to 18kgs. Every time I went to an exhibition most customers first reaction was to pick the bike up and I know one particular picky customer who walked round with a fishing scales,hehe!!!
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Eddie was totally intolerant of anything that did not meet his ideals.
He was particularly insulting about the Tonaro range which I find to be good looking and efficient.
He was also very pro German to the exclusion of other makes. Maybe because he did not like throttles for some odd reason, and the mighty Bosch do not have throttles thereby meeting his total approval.
My ideals are 180 degrees opposite to his, but I did not find the need to hurl gratuitous insults at his preferences.

I think you have mis read my posting,I am very respectful of Eddie's ideals and must say that his knowledge of the German market I personally find missing now from this forum.
I certainly did not 'hurl insults at his preferences', I think I am supportive of his aims but not his communications to achieve those aims
I am very thick skinned so Eddie's insults were a mild amusement to me,I respect they offended others,he was sort of Clarksonish!
KudosDave

 

[trex]

@KD was eddieo right? probably no. He did not hold on to his purchases for long though. Perhaps that says something.
He was quite rude to a lot of people, including myself.

 

[Croxden]

He put me off buying into the BH bikes by commenting on the low spec parts on a bike in that price bracket.

Having read the woes of some members with these bikes I will be eternally grateful to EddieO.

 

[shemozzle999]

I think he is still around riding his soon to be legal Haibike - rumor has it he has even recently recommended one of your Kudos bikes KD

 

[D8ve]

I'm with Eddie on light weight efficent performing machines.
And sub 20 kg is a must. It it's hard work to pedal then it hard for the motor to move.

 

[EddieH]

Some of us need the heavier bikes to carry our fat lardy backsides. If I got on a lightweight bike Ii think I would crush it

 

[Artstu]

I'm drafting the ideal current Pedelecs forum bike,20 Ah battery hanging out the back,
700 watt motor driving the front axle,throttle only drive,cheapie heavy frame and cheapie gears,pedals are redundant-footrests only,weight kept under 30 kilos,cost about £600.00...,is that really what we want???

Not me. although I'd like the option of a centrally mounted 20 ah battery.

 

[oldtom]

He also rode a bike with a big phallus sticking out of it, and he was the only one that couldn't see it.

I remember that! I think Eddieo may have been showcasing that bike for David Miall who was still actively promoting his Wisper bike range back then, long before he moved on to become part of the Freego-Wisper group, FWG.

It had a powerful Dapu motor but that battery was horrible!

As Croxden mentions in #7, Eddieo was quite vociferous about the BH range, based on the near-budget range quality of the components for the price being asked. I think he was right about that. Equally, he and the other chap who sometimes supported his views and whose name now escapes me, were highly critical of the Storck Raddar which we rarely hear about these days. It was grossly expensive and couldn't go up hills as well as an early model Haibike which was much cheaper.

The EAPC scene has moved on but I do take the point made by KD. Most of the bikes available to us are still too heavy and only a few makers offer really lightweight bikes but the compromise is invariably a lightweight battery with limited range. Of those, I have never understood why more forum members don't ride Cytronex-powered bikes as I would bet that most readers here rarely, if ever, ride 20+ miles in a single trip, about the range limit if using power a lot on one of those.

At least, those bikes are light enough to attach to a car in the same way as regular bikes and very few EAPCs meet that criterion.

Tom

 

[selrahc1992]

He also rode a bike with a big phallus sticking out of it, and he was the only one that couldn't see it.

Joking aside, there was some sense in what he was saying, but you can't exclude a bike because it doesn't meet your ideals. If a bike goes how you want it to, that should be enough.

one could debate the merits of front axle power or a downtube battery, but a big phallus sticking out of a bike must unquestionably be a good thing.

 

[Kudoscycles]

He put me off buying into the BH bikes by commenting on the low spec parts on a bike in that price bracket.

Having read the woes of some members with these bikes I will be eternally grateful to EddieO.

Eddie was right about BH,the warranty problems and difficulty of sorting them out caused us to drop BH from our range,never to return.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Good morning,whatever one's views on Eddie's style,he certainly made me stop and think about the design and weight of these e-bikes....I am sure Eddie would have approved of our Kudos Arriba,it was pretty close to Eddie's ideals. Actually the UK and Germany went down a similar design route but Holland is still comfortable with heavy,low powered e-bikes....one of my original suppliers still supplies 5000 plus e-bikes to Holland every year,their design and weight has not changed in 5 years,the Dutch appear to love them.
For me the next threshold point is to get these bikes under 20 kilos but retaining a 10 Ah battery,it's really about summing small weight savings in lots of different places,interesting task.
KudosDave

 

[Croxden]

Of those, I have never understood why more forum members don't ride Cytronex-powered bikes as I would bet that most readers here rarely, if ever, ride 20+ miles in a single trip, about the range limit if using power a lot on one of those.
Tom

I first became aware of ebikes when Otis road one on the Gadget Show (when I used to watch it) I didn't want to spend so much on a bike.
But It seemed to be just what I wanted, there is one long hill that was a struggle for me, it was ideal.

But on this forum, someone posted a review where he fell and broke the motor. Cytronex also recommended not to ride on cobbles and the like so I removed it from consideration and I looked further afield.

I also seemed to blow the budget out of the water.

When I took delivery of the Delite last year, I went out into the wind that prevailed, a heavy bike ploughed on, a lightweight bike would have been blown off course and into danger possibly.


This forum is brilliant.

 

[Artstu]

I first became aware of ebikes when Otis road one on the Gadget Show (when I used to watch it)
This forum is brilliant.

I remember that one. It was the Gocycle that got me interested.

Interestingly I've beaten Russ's best time up the other side of Holme Moss, so me and my bike are faster than Otis and the Cytronex.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Low weight and low price are the only characteristics that are common to nearly all buyers. Most of the other characteristics that people want are unique to the individual, and they're mainly in conflict with the other two. You therefore can't make an ideal bike based on a list of ideal characteristics.

I can remember in the early 80s, when Honda had a go at making the ideal UK motorcycle. They launched a massive market research campaign to get a list of characteristics for it. They got the information from everybody they could: clubs, shows, magazines, the press, dealers, etc. The result of it was the Honda XBR500. It flopped, presumably because nobody wanted an ideal bike.

 

[Kudoscycles]

D8veh...I agree and it's the variety that makes comparisons interesting,there was a time when the small hatchback cars,designed by computer,based upon similar market research,all looked the same.
Just need a name for my new heavy bike,thinking about 'FAT BRUTE',what do you think but may have copyright problems,hehe(must get out of that habit)???
KudosDave

 

[mike killay]

Many of us would like far more dedicated cycle/shared use paths.
We are unlikely to get them unless the number of cyclists in the UK increases many fold.
The electric bike offers a possible way of persuading people to get out of their cars and cycle.
For these people cost is the first and most important criterion.
Weight etc. come way down the list.
So, yes, if we are to make progress, the simple, heavy but cheap bike is the way forward for the mass market.