Was EddieO right?

[oldtom]

So, yes, if we are to make progress, the simple, heavy but cheap bike is the way forward for the mass market.

I'm bound to say I disagree entirely with that premise Mike. In the UK, we have been perpetuating that notion for as long as I have had any awareness of EAPCs.

There is an enormous amount of work to be done in terms of infrastructure before more people might be encouraged to venture out on bicycles or return to cycling. For many, I'm sure, the heavy contraptions we have been fed by our cottage ebike industry for years is a real turn-off. We need to have far more sleek, sexy EAPCs to attract more people to the idea.

Some people who cannot ride bikes around their own area because it's too dangerous, strap their bikes to their vehicle and go somewhere else, safer and possibly more appealing, in order to enjoy a bike ride. Those heavyweight machines, impossible for many to attach safely to their cars, offer no attraction but an unpowered,12Kg, mock mountain bike looks the part on the back of or the roof of their car....and impresses the neighbours.

In short, I don't see the UK EAPC market expanding dramatically all the time we have the heavy battle cruisers as the mainstay of the introductory or budget end of the market. Think of all those people who don't have a garden, a shed, or any safe place to put a bike. Flat dwellers might be able to manhandle a very lightweight bike up stairs, even into a lift, but a 27-30 Kg bike is a different proposition.

If the likes of Kudos or Whoosh were to produce a machine of 14-17 Kgs all-up, with the looks and a decent range, advertised heavily, that could make inroads and overcome the difficulties for those who find EAPCs, as we have them today, simply too cumbersome.

Tom

 

[Kudoscycles]

Mike.....you state that low price is most people's criterion.....that is a change over the last few years,maybe a sign of austerity times. But I do think that the bike still needs to be a nice bike even if it is cheap.
Bikes like the Cyclamatic have always been very cheap and actually had a big following on this forum but hardly gets a mention now.
One of the problems of heavy bikes is moving them around,in particular lifting them into a vehicle or onto a rear rack. A lot of customers who buy e-bikes are of more mature years,they do struggle to lift these heavy bikes.
A 20kg bike with a BPM motor,15 Ah battery,decent gears and brakes costing about £500 is probably the holy grail,not achievable at the moment but possible with high volume production but the market is just not big enough.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

Bike weight is a relative thing. Bikes sold by the advertisers on here weigh about the same for the same specs, give or take a few hundred grs. Things like comfort saddle, NCX seat post, mudguards, chainguard, rack, propstand, pedals, lights, bell (or horn in the Big Bear), adjustable stem, throttle (yes, throttle) all add weight. Powerful motor and bigger batteries also add weight. When you replace the 2200mAH with 2900mA cells, you save about 500grs. Some of the new woosh bikes come with 3300mAH or 3400mAH NCR cells to save another 500grs.
woosh have one light machine in their workshop since last summer, weighing about 15kgs all in. If you come to Southend, they may let you have a go on it. Rigid front fork but with Magura hydraulic brakes, no throttle though. My recipe for a cheap lightweight machine: get a nice donor bike and add the new Woosh CD kit.

 

[flecc]

flecc will soon have an opinion,no doubt.

Soon no, it took long into the second page of the thread . That wasn't deliberate, I've only just looked in.

And I don't have a strong opinion about EddieO's bike choices.

The one opinion I'll offer is that, like cwah, EddieO was one of this forum's great characters who has been widely missed.
.

 

[flecc]

Eddieo was quite vociferous about the BH range, based on the near-budget range quality of the components for the price being asked. I think he was right about that. Equally, he and the other chap who sometimes supported his views and whose name now escapes me, were highly critical of the Storck Raddar

The other chap was Indalo, banned at the same time.

Here's a thread about that, a 7 page fun read for Friday the 13th.
.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Why do you think that Indalo was banned too? Could it have been that there was a rather close link to Eddieo?

 

[flecc]

Why do you think that Indalo was banned too? Could it have been that there was a rather close link to Eddieo?

No, they did argue with each other at least a couple of times. Also the ban resulted from messages between each other that were disparaging of other members. They both thought they were in a private message area of the forum, but where it was in fact publically viewable.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I'm bound to say I disagree entirely with that premise Mike. In the UK, we have been perpetuating that notion for as long as I have had any awareness of EAPCs.

There is an enormous amount of work to be done in terms of infrastructure before more people might be encouraged to venture out on bicycles or return to cycling. For many, I'm sure, the heavy contraptions we have been fed by our cottage ebike industry for years is a real turn-off. We need to have far more sleek, sexy EAPCs to attract more people to the idea.

Some people who cannot ride bikes around their own area because it's too dangerous, strap their bikes to their vehicle and go somewhere else, safer and possibly more appealing, in order to enjoy a bike ride. Those heavyweight machines, impossible for many to attach safely to their cars, offer no attraction but an unpowered,12Kg, mock mountain bike looks the part on the back of or the roof of their car....and impresses the neighbours.

In short, I don't see the UK EAPC market expanding dramatically all the time we have the heavy battle cruisers as the mainstay of the introductory or budget end of the market. Think of all those people who don't have a garden, a shed, or any safe place to put a bike. Flat dwellers might be able to manhandle a very lightweight bike up stairs, even into a lift, but a 27-30 Kg bike is a different proposition.

If the likes of Kudos or Whoosh were to produce a machine of 14-17 Kgs all-up, with the looks and a decent range, advertised heavily, that could make inroads and overcome the difficulties for those who find EAPCs, as we have them today, simply too cumbersome.

Tom

Tom,our postings crossed but I agree with everything you say but it can't be achieved without a cost penalty and according to Mike's postings cheap price is everything.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Should we start a campaign 'Bring back EddieO'???
I bet he looks in here occasionally,
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

Should we start a campaign 'Bring back EddieO'???
I bet he looks in here occasionally,
KudosDave

There have been appeals, but they've fallen on deaf ears. One can perhaps understand that since both had been warned and banned previously and been forgiven afterwards.

In fact Eddie, who lives not far from me, told me he didn't want to return, so a successful appeal could have no result.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Actually there are a lot of members who used to contribute to the forum a lot,at our age (speaking personally,sorry to younger members)one worries about health stopping their postings.
Did someone say that Eddie has a Haibike?
He couldnt come back as an alias,that style of his would be recognisable immediately.
He was a character,that was for sure.
Now back to designing my new Fat Boy bike,is 20Ah and 700 watts enough,it does have to move serious amount of lard around ???
KudosDave

 

[Deleted member 4366]

No, they did argue with each other at least a couple of times. Also the ban resulted from messages between each other that were disparaging of other members. They both thought they were in a private message area of the forum, but where it was in fact publically viewable.
.

People that are close to each other often argue.

 

[JohnCade]

(speaking personally,sorry to younger members)one worries about health stopping their postings.
Did someone say that Eddie has a Haibike?
He couldnt come back as an alias,that style of his would be recognisable immediately.
He was a character,that was for sure.
Now back to designing my new Fat Boy bike,is 20Ah and 700 watts enough,it does have to move serious amount of lard around ???
KudosDave

I always wondered about that on other forums I contribute to. There would be members who were prolific posters and who I would exchange messages with over a period of some years, and suddenly they were gone. In some cases without the tale tale tapering off in posts but after he’d posted four messages in the morning.

Usually no one would know anything about the real person behind the handle and the caravan would move on.

 

[JohnCade]

People that are close to each other often argue.

Like the Bates boy and his dead mother you mean?

 

[selrahc1992]

The other chap was Indalo, banned at the same time.

Here's a thread about that, a 7 page fun read for Friday the 13th.
.

i skimmed it, but couldnt find the transgressions. what does one have to do to get banned?
I like cwah because he rather bravely shares the struggle - on a forum, as on facebook, it can often become all glamorous photoshopped rides, near death experiences and highly accomplished DIY miracles, which are fine in their own way, but instead of the real struggle

 

[flecc]

i skimmed it, but couldnt find the transgressions. what does one have to do to get banned?

In post 27 I gave the reason:

"the ban resulted from messages between each other that were disparaging of other members. They both thought they were in a private message area of the forum, but where it was in fact publically viewable."

And as I mentioned in post 30, there had been previous warnings about posts considered by some to be abusive and offensive.
.

 

[Hugh]

Actually there are a lot of members who used to contribute to the forum a lot,at our age (speaking personally,sorry to younger members)one worries about health stopping their postings.
Did someone say that Eddie has a Haibike?
He couldnt come back as an alias,that style of his would be recognisable immediately.
He was a character,that was for sure.
Now back to designing my new Fat Boy bike,is 20Ah and 700 watts enough,it does have to move serious amount of lard around ???
KudosDave

Eddie's alive and kicking He's just got himself a Riese and Muller full sus bike - not cheap, but a very neat solution to the problem of fixing a sturdy rack to a full susser.

 

[selrahc1992]

In post 27 I gave the reason:

"the ban resulted from messages between each other that were disparaging of other members. They both thought they were in a private message area of the forum, but where it was in fact publically viewable."

And as I mentioned in post 30, there had been previous warnings about posts considered by some to be abusive and offensive.
.

sorry, got that, was wondering how disparaging one has to become to be banned - was hoping to find some nice, juicy, full on insulting tet-a-tet really :^)

 

[JohnCade]

In post 27 I gave the reason:

"the ban resulted from messages between each other that were disparaging of other members. They both thought they were in a private message area of the forum, but where it was in fact publically viewable."

And as I mentioned in post 30, there had been previous warnings about posts considered by some to be abusive and offensive.
.

I assume that wasn’t conversations? I thought that was the only messages facility.

 

[flecc]

sorry, got that, was wondering how disparaging one has to become to be banned - was hoping to find some nice, juicy, full on insulting tet-a-tet really :^)

I actually don't know the content, not even knowing what area the conversation was in. However, my choice of "disparaging" was diplomatic. I'm sure that was not the word the administrator had in mind at the time!
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