What do people think about electric bike law?

[Clarkey]

I see lots of posts (not necessarily here) devoted to 'getting round' the law related to electric bikes. Many people want more powerful motors, higher speed etc. - often by considerable margins.

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that the law is pitched about right and I would not trade any of the freedom from regulation in order to go 5-10 mph faster or blast up hills like a motorbike.

What do people really think?

 

[Straylight]

I agree that freedom from regulation is a blissful thing, but as many cyclists can easily and frequently ride their unnassisted bikes at 20mph (at least), then this should be the allowed maximum for e-bikes. My point being that the 15mph rule is all but uninforceable, as any fit cyclist could claim that they weren't under power at 20mph, as long as they had an "off road switch" to deactivate when they were stoped.

 

[Sime]

Things will likely vary depending on what kind of facilities your country has for bikes and more importantly what kind of car/bike culture you have. I live in the Netherlands with probably the best conditions for cycling in the world, e.g. bike lanes, bike culture etc. From where I am I now think that a max of 25 km/h is probably about right. Firstly there are serious practical limitations to going much faster than 25 km/h. The bike infrastructure, especially in cities, isn't designed for high speeds like 30-35km/h, and most of the other people you share the lane with are much slower which means you have to overtake them all the time. Even still, the idea of everyone on ebikes in 5 years time doing 35 km/h all the time is likely to have a big impact on road safety. Practically every kid uses a bike to get around.

If you want to go fast you can get a scooter. Personally I find scooters to be one of the more annoying and dangerous types of traffic around.

cheers, Simon

 

[Dynamic Position]

As a novice hoping to purchase an electric bicycle this year I think that the law is reasonably practicable considering the development of the electric bicycle.

With bicycle weight reducing with lighter batteries and some electric bicycles designed & manufactured specifically to cope to higher specifications there may be a case to change the legislation. It is important that safety is maintained so higher powered electric bicycles must be used responsibly and they must remain unmodified from the tested design specification (EU Standard).

Users of higher specification electric bicycles should also be capable of following The Road Traffic Act etc., therefor they should hold a valid car or motorbike driving licence. Electric bicycle cyclists should also be subject to prosecution if they cycle irresponsibly.

There probably should also be a top speed of 25 - 30mph for electric bicycles.

After that you are riding an eletric scooter!

 

[Barnowl]

I see lots of posts (not necessarily here) devoted to 'getting round' the law related to electric bikes. Many people want more powerful motors, higher speed etc. - often by considerable margins.

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that the law is pitched about right and I would not trade any of the freedom from regulation in order to go 5-10 mph faster or blast up hills like a motorbike.

What do people really think?

I really think you're right. I'm quite happy with assistance up to 15MPH and I don't have any issue with the law.

 

[Clarkey]

I think that Sime has it right - everything about a bicycle and its infrastructure (such that we have in the UK) is optimised for speeds in the 25km/hr region.

For me, an electric motor on a bike is a way to maintain a consistent average speed in all conditions and it is this that makes it useful transport. What I would like to know though, are what characteristics make a (legal) electric bike fun to ride? After all, an original Mini is by most standards a slow car but it is fantastic fun to drive. I am guessing that light weight, decent torque and responsiveness are key factors but is there more? Is a throttle or a pedal torque sensor to be preferred?

 

[JohnInStockie]

I see lots of posts (not necessarily here) devoted to 'getting round' the law related to electric bikes. Many people want more powerful motors, higher speed etc. - often by considerable margins.

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that the law is pitched about right and I would not trade any of the freedom from regulation in order to go 5-10 mph faster or blast up hills like a motorbike.

What do people really think?

I think that most are quite happy with the law as is, however those of us that are on road commuting, viing for road space with cars, would like the option to go a bit faster mainly for safety reasons, this being that its the difference between the speed of a car and the speed of the cycle that can be the danger factor.

In other words, if I am going at 15mph, and a car travelling at 32 mph wants to overtake, then when a pinch point comes up, some drivers will try to (I know from experience).

Whereas if I am going at 23mph, and a car overtakes at 32 mph, its actually less likely that the car driver will 'chance it' and try and overtake me in a pinch.

Hope that makes sense.

John

 

[Clarkey]

I think that most are quite happy with the law as is, however those of us that are on road commuting, viing for road space with cars, would like the option to go a bit faster mainly for safety reasons, this being that its the difference between the speed of a car and the speed of the cycle that can be the danger factor.

In other words, if I am going at 15mph, and a car travelling at 32 mph wants to overtake, then when a pinch point comes up, some drivers will try to (I know from experience).

Whereas if I am going at 23mph, and a car overtakes at 32 mph, its actually less likely that the car driver will 'chance it' and try and overtake me in a pinch.

Hope that makes sense.

John

It makes perfect sense but I don't know where you draw the line? - eventually you would end up striving to match the speed of the traffic. I guess a lot depends on the roads you are cycling on too.

 

[JohnInStockie]

It makes perfect sense but I don't know where you draw the line? - eventually you would end up striving to match the speed of the traffic. I guess a lot depends on the roads you are cycling on too.

I do strive to match the speed of the traffic now, simply for safety. You recall that feeling you get when your on a busy road going up hill at 5mph with cars wizzing past at 30+ ???

I dont like that feeling and try to avoid it if I can.

On a long stretch of my route to work, on the way in its slightly downhill. I can maintain 23mph all the way on that 2 miles section, and I do (not on the way back tho - but I can keep the bike upto 18mph even then so long as the wind isnt unfavorable). Theres 1 steeper section too, and I get the bike upto 27mph and although pedaling like an egg-whisk, try to maintain that as long as I can. I never get overtaken even by cars when I am doing that speed, I think that they feel its not a hinderance for them.

You have to bear in mind that I am on very busy roads.

If we have the cycling infrastructure (i.e. routes like the continent) then peeps wouldnt feel as intimidated and of course the need wouldnt arise (except for the true speed freeks, but it doesnt matter what they are driving/riding, e.t.c.), but without that infrastructure for safety's sake when in traffic, and with the need to simply get more 'commuting' drivers out of their cars and using a viable alternative, I think a 20mph ceiling (like the US) would be quite suitable for the UK.

John

 

[Alex728]

although some foreign nations clearly have better infrastructure, I do think we in Britain feel "the grass is greener on the other side" with regard to speed.

Many blogs, and anecdotal evidence from Europeans (including a post on this thread) state the average cycling speed on their paths is 10-15 mph (converted). If cycling is popular for all, not everyone wants to go as fast as possible, and even for us who can go fast it would still be bad behaviour to try and force a slower cyclist on the narrow path to "speed up", same as such behaviour in a motor car would be anti-social..

Also unless you are a maths genius, converting from km/h to mph in your head isn't a simple task - so psychologically its easy to get confused and to think our foreign counterparts are going much faster than they actually are.

I even got jokingly advised a while back that one reason people involved in Audaxes (including in the UK) give their results in metric is because the bigger numbers are more impressive

 

[Clarkey]

although some foreign nations clearly have better infrastructure, I do think we in Britain feel "the grass is greener on the other side" with regard to speed.

Many blogs, and anecdotal evidence from Europeans (including a post on this thread) state the average cycling speed on their paths is 10-15 mph (converted). If cycling is popular for all, not everyone wants to go as fast as possible, and even for us who can go fast it would still be bad behaviour to try and force a slower cyclist on the narrow path to "speed up", same as such behaviour in a motor car would be anti-social..

Also unless you are a maths genius, converting from km/h to mph in your head isn't a simple task - so psychologically its easy to get confused and to think our foreign counterparts are going much faster than they actually are.

I even got jokingly advised a while back that one reason people involved in Audaxes (including in the UK) give their results in metric is because the bigger numbers are more impressive

That is something I noticed when I lived in Italy - people using bikes as an everyday mode of transport rarely go fast. When it rained they even cycled holding umbrellas!

 

[JohnInStockie]

Many blogs, and anecdotal evidence from Europeans (including a post on this thread) state the average cycling speed on their paths is 10-15 mph (converted). If cycling is popular for all, not everyone wants to go as fast as possible, and even for us who can go fast it would still be bad behaviour to try and force a slower cyclist on the narrow path to "speed up", same as such behaviour in a motor car would be anti-social..

Totally agree! Thats exactly what I was saying. If we had a good path infrastructure, then I for one wouldnt feel the 'want or need' to keep up with cars.

John

 

[Patrick]

I think that most are quite happy with the law as is, however those of us that are on road commuting, viing for road space with cars, would like the option to go a bit faster mainly for safety reasons, this being that its the difference between the speed of a car and the speed of the cycle that can be the danger factor.

In other words, if I am going at 15mph, and a car travelling at 32 mph wants to overtake, then when a pinch point comes up, some drivers will try to (I know from experience).

Whereas if I am going at 23mph, and a car overtakes at 32 mph, its actually less likely that the car driver will 'chance it' and try and overtake me in a pinch.

Hope that makes sense.

John

I think that the rationale behind the law is that if your electrically motorised vehicle performs like an [unassisted] pushbike then it will be treated as a pushbike. It exempts certain motorised vehicles from the usual restrictions and obligations, and read that way I'd describe the current situation as "sensibly generous".

I'll accept that riding your electrically motorised vehicle would be safer if you could ride it faster along those problematic roads, but that could only be achieved by making it perform significantly differently from a pushbike (otherwise you'd be riding at those speeds like you do on the downhill stretches), which would invalidate the rational for making it exempt from MOTs, licence requirements etc.

Ebikes get their legislative advantages over other motorised vehicles because the are like pushbikes, but if they are like push bikes then there is no reason to argue that they should be any safer to ride than pushbikes. So if the 15mph assisted limit made ebikes less safe to ride than pushbikes then there would be argument for raising the limit on safety grounds, but as legal ebikes are effectively pushbikes when ridden over 15mph that is not the case.

I'd be in favour of a "fast ebike" class being established for motorised vehicles that significantly outperform pushbikes but still retain a lot of pushbike characteristics, which is what I think you'd need.

Patrick

 

[Straylight]

The point I was making in my earlier post was to highlight the apparent contradiction within the current law, in that a cyclist pedaling at 20mph is completely within their rights, yet a cyclist being assisted to 20mph is counted as illegal. Not mentioning that someone on a push bike without assistance is making more effort, and so has less attention to devote to their surroundings.

I disagree that because a a bike has the capability, it will immediately encourage people to use it inapropriately. This is a choice made by the individual rider, and there will always be idiots out there. I'd be more in favour of physicaly limiting cars to a maximum of 70mph, in the same way that trucks are limited to 56.

I'd like to add that 20mph is also the slowest speed limit enforceable on uk roads at present, so would seem to me to be a logical point to set a maximum assisted speed.

 

[flecc]

I think the only sensible part of electric assist bike law is the assist speed limit to keep them akin to bicycles.

The power available within that is a matter for designers, not legislators, and they should be free to provide a range of powers to cope with all hills for every degree of user fitness, enabling all the elderly and the partially disabled to be better served.

There should be no lower age limit just as there is none for cycling.

The upper weight limit has no point and shouldn't exist since designers will always try to make e-bikes light anyway.

Throttle only control should be available to better serve those whose health means they need some periods of rest from pedalling. The period of throttle only could have timer limiting to 5 minute sessions to ensure the e-bike continues to be used like a bicycle.
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[Patrick]

The point I was making in my earlier post was to highlight the apparent contradiction within the current law, in that a cyclist pedaling at 20mph is completely within their rights, yet a cyclist being assisted to 20mph is counted as illegal. Not mentioning that someone on a push bike without assistance is making more effort, and so has less attention to devote to their surroundings.

The source of the "apparent contradiction" can be traced back to the Department of Transport (DoT) saying that ebikes are not "Motor Vehicles", dispite the fact that they are vehicles with motors.
Department for Transport - Electrically assisted pedal cycles in Great Britain

Unasisted bikes are not considered to be motor vehicles, regardless of how fast their riders can propel them, simply because they don't have motors. Ebikes are considered not be motor vehicles because the DoT have decided to turn a blind eye to them as long as they are sufficently pushbike like.

This is an out-and-out fudge, but the alternative would be to class all ebikes as motor vehicles, which although consistant would be a pain for all concerned.

Patrick

 

[UrbanPuma]

What are the actual EU rules that are due to come into effect in the UK?

 

[flecc]

What are the actual EU rules that are due to come into effect in the UK?

The position is this.

Nominal power: EU 250 watts, UK 200 watts bike, 250 watts trike.

Pedelec: EU compulsory, UK optional.

Throttle: EU only combined with pedelec, UK throttle only permitted.

Assisted speed limit: EU 25 kph with gradual power phase down leading up to it, UK 15 mph with no phase down necessary.

Maximum weight: All areas: 40 kg bike, 60 kg trike or tandem.

Lower age limit: Only Sweden (15 years) and Britain (14 years).

Some countries have additional laws. For example, Germany has an over-riding 24 kph limit, and Sweden requires third party insurance and helmet wearing but allows 30 kph (18.75 mph). Germany and outside the EU, Switzerland, have high speed e-bike classes in addition, permitting around 20 mph but with other restrictions like insurance and helmet wearing.

In this country we have both UK and EU laws fully in force and conflicting due to the civil service error in failing to arrange cessation of the UK law. Theoretically it would be safest to only stick to one set of rules and not "pick and mix", though the risk of any police officer having a clue about e-bike law is vanishingly small.

The Department for Transport have refused to give a definitive ruling while both laws are in force, saying that only a test case before the courts can resolve a prosecution outcome.

I understand that it could be as much as 2 or 3 years before the EU regulations are fully enforced here in the UK.
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[rog_london]

Ebikes are considered not be motor vehicles because the DoT have decided to turn a blind eye to them as long as they are sufficently pushbike like.

This is an out-and-out fudge, but the alternative would be to class all ebikes as motor vehicles, which although consistant would be a pain for all concerned.

Patrick

How right you are - any formal legislation would inevitably be more restrictive than liberating, and the status quo is as good as it's likely to get.

Our biggest 'enemy' at present is the health and safety brigade IMO, which just can't resist foisting all manner of compliance and type approval upon us, which probably won't affect us directly as e-bike riders but will surely raise the manufacturing and importing costs and therefore will impact upon us indirectly.

I certainly think the 15mph assist limit is as much as we could hope for, especially as it's unlikely to be rigidly enforced. Many on here seem to return to the 'if only they were a bit faster' time and again, but that's never going to happen in general.

There's presently nothing to stop you importing one of those horrendously expensive Optibikes (I know there are a few around in the UK) and taking your chances that the considerable turn of speed might attract unwelcome attention. Or modding something else more economically. As far as I know nobody has been 'pulled' for doing any of that, but sooner or later it will happen, and I think our best defence is to keep a low profile. If a copper on his nice new police Wisper gets left for dead by someone on an Optibike, I can see we'll all be in trouble sooner rather than later.

Rog.

 

[flecc]

If a copper on his nice new police Wisper gets left for dead by someone on an Optibike, I can see we'll all be in trouble sooner rather than later.

Rog.

Unless they agree to swap and call it quits.
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