What one would be the better second hand buy

[dinger19]

Hi I'm torn between 2 second hand bikes and not sure what one to go for,please help

First one ........11 months old and still has 13 months warranty left and it has only been rode for 8 miles.


KALKHOFF AGATTU PREMIUM C11 IMPULSE 2013 MODEL



Technical Specifications
Frame E-Bike Impulse drive, alloy, internal cable routing
Fork Verso III Magnesium TnL
Motor Impulse 36 V / 250 W
Battery Li Ion 36 V / 15 Ah / 540 Wh
Display Impulse LCD
Gears Shimano Alfine 11-speed
Shifters Shimano Alfine S700 Rapidfire Plus
Crank Concept SL
Handlebar Humpert Climber
Stem Satori UP2, adjustable
Saddle Selle Royal Respiro
Seatpost Patent MCU suspension
Brakes Magura HS33
Dynamo Shimano Alfine hub dynamo
Rims Rodi Scorpion, double wall, with eyelets
Spokes stainless, 2.34mm
Tyres Continental Contact 2 reflex, foldable
Mudguards SKS, plastic with reflector, rear spoiler and end cover
Rack 3-stays, alloy
Chainguard Impulse, Revolver
Pedals Non slip, alloy
Sidestand Ätran Stylo, alloy, adjustable
Headlight B&M Lumotec CYO RT, with daytime running light and sensor
Backlight B&M Toplight Flat Safe, automatic rear safety light exclusive to Kalkhoff
Weight 24,40 kg
Colour Mondobrown, matt

Second one is ...3 years old well looked after battery still showing 5 bars

Kalkhoff pro-connect disc 2011 model.

Weight overall (inc batteries): 23.98 kg
Battery weight: 3.19 kg
Bike only weight: 20.79 kg
Charger weight: 0.70 kg
(inc. mains cable)
Battery type: Li-Ion
Battery capacity: 468 Watt hours (18Ah 26V)
Gearing: 8-speed Alfine hub gear. 41T ring, 19T sprocket. Ratios: 31-95”.
Brakes: Shimano M445 hydraulic disks
Lighting: front LED (B&M IQ
Cyo T), rear LED (AXA Riff)
Other accessories fitted: mudguards, carrier rack, stand, bell, pump.

One is more expensive than the other,and before anyone asks I dont wear lycra

Thanks in advance

 

[D8ve]

Both stonking bikes. 11speed hub gives huge gear ratios and reduced maintance with longer lasting chain.
Second one is still a great bike.
It's warranty and replacement parts with price I suspect.
Would have had either you have some taste

 

[Deleted member 4366]

We need to know the prices before we can say which represents best value, but if you're asking which is the best, obviously the first one.

 

[dinger19]

We need to know the prices before we can say which represents best value, but if you're asking which is the best, obviously the first one.

The first one is under£1550
The second is below £750

Both of them come with all the documentation etc

 

[Bmdji]

Surely it comes down to how much you want to spend. The more expensive bike is better so get that. If you don't want to spend that much get the cheaper one?

 

[Jonah]

The first is a really nice almost current bike but for not that much more (well £600) you can get a new Kalkhoff with the upgraded Impulse 2 motor. For a secondhand purchase I would more likely go for the second. This has the old Panasonic motor / battery which has less power but has proved reliable and long lasting so the extra age needn't be too much of a concern (accepting how it has been looked after).

 

[dinger19]

The first is a really nice almost current bike but for not that much more (well £600) you can get a new Kalkhoff with the upgraded Impulse 2 motor. For a secondhand purchase I would more likely go for the second. This has the old Panasonic motor / battery which has less power but has proved reliable and long lasting so the extra age needn't be too much of a concern (accepting how it has been looked after).

The first one over a brand new version is it really worth the extra £600 would i really get any extra benefit from that extra expense.

The second one as you say how has the battery been treated and looked after that's the unknown regardless of what the owner says.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The old one is OK if you're light. It's a bit lacking in power for heavyweights. The new one has a lot more torque and power, so it goes up hills better.

The first one can also be reprogrammed to go a lot faster. If you want one that's already done, check out Alex's in the classified section.

 

[JohnCade]

I can't see it there.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

His name is 103Alex1. He must have mentioned it in a thread somewhere else. Send him a pm.

 

[trex]

I can't see it there.

john, if you are interested in one o these two, read the review of the C11 Premium http://www.electricbikemag.co.uk/showStory.php?storynum=142
under gear section. Sorry everyone for diverting from the main subject.

...But what it won't do is shift while under load: it lets you change gear at the handlebars, but then the mechanism within the gear won't actually implement the shift until the load going through the transmission drops to a 'safe' (for the gear internals) level. This should work really well to prolong the life of the hub gear, but it does mean that it's very hard to shift (especially into higher gears) without easing off on the pedals to make the change happen. And that easing off also leads to the power assist cutting out, then ramping up again before it kicks in again at full power. So as you're going up through the gears, power assistance is 'punctuated' each time by the gear change. It's not a problem at all once you're used to it, just a quirk you quickly adapt to....

 

[103Alex1]

Go for the first one .. great bike. Johncade - Mine's a step-through so wouldn't fit what you're after. The spec is great and it's a fantastic bike to ride (for the non-lycra set !).

I'd far rather have a top quality great-specced 2nd hand bike than a new one. The warranty thing take with a pinch of salt. I most likely wouldn't bother buying new again - if the bike's going well after a year and a half any warranty issues will have been sorted already. The mileage will show you how much use the bike's had (C11s have what's effectively an odometer). The batteries have an "auto-sleep" function when not in use and there's a limit to how much carnage "bad storage" can have had to a Kalkhoff 15/17Ah battery even if the seller didn't look after it "optimally".

 

[dinger19]

Well the deed is done here's my new bike........... and thanks for all the advise.

It's only been ridden for 8 miles,it's 11 months,and save over 50% off the price of a new one,now to collect the wife bike tomorrow..................

 

[dinger19]

This is what we're collecting tomorrow...........for the wife. just like mine very
little use (used twice).

 

[flapajack]

Lovely looking bikes. I am sure you will enjoy the freedom these bikes will bring. Enjoy!

 

[JohnCade]

Looks like a good deal there Dinger. Like the his and hers look.

On a slightly wider point people, and I'm sure this has been well covered before, but what are the main pros and cons of the Kalkhoff Panasonic versus the Impulse?

The 26v Panasonic is quieter I believe and perhaps more economical? But mainly because it's less powerful I assume. But is it more reliable since it's been well tested over time? Anyway how reliable is the Impulse motor with all that clever software? They were already on v 2 only a year later after all.

I'm mainly thinking of the last Panasonics from 2012 against the first Impulses of around 2013. I know that the power characteristics were changed over time, and that some think the earlier 26v motors are nicer to ride as an assisted bicycle as long as the rider has some level of fitness; and there is more to riding an e bike than just grunt after all...Twice the rider input added on should be enough to get you up any hill unless you are very heavy or very unfit.

So if you are reasonably fit old fart who just wants a bit of help on steep hills, which is the better bike to ride? Assuming both are new or newish and not old nails that have been hammered into the ground.

 

[flecc]

I think it's generally better to go for the newer technology John. E-bikes are still very much vehicles in development, very different from cars and the like which were refined to high degrees of standardisation in design many years ago.

The Impulse unit isn't quite as new as it might appear either, it is a development by Kalkhoff of the German Daum crank motor which preceded the Bosch unit on the market by more than a year.

 

[Jonah]

I think the C11 is a really smart looking bike in that colour. Difficult to appreciate in a photo but 'in the flesh' it's very classy.

 

[JohnCade]

I think it's generally better to go for the newer technology John. E-bikes are still very much vehicles in development, very different from cars and the like which were refined to high degrees of standardisation in design many years ago.

The Impulse unit isn't quite as new as it might appear either, it is a development by Kalkhoff of the German Daum crank motor which preceded the Bosch unit on the market by more than a year.

Thanks Flecc.

That seems like good advice. I'm a bit surprised though because I thought you were a fan of the Panasonic. It would come down to price and spec in the end I suppose.

 

[flecc]

I am John, but as you know from our recent communications, less so with each of Panasonic's revisions. So there's a bit of a hinge point now when the advances can become more attractive. For example the latest Impulse unit's greater climb ability and it's gearchange smoothing feature, though I'm not sure if the latter is on the 11 month old one you are looking at.

Of course ideally have one of each, using for their most suitable purposes!
.