Which motor/kit to get? Bafang CST or Xiongda? 36V or 48V?

[awol]

@awolWhat do you mean by torque reviews? I have no other bike to compare it with. In my feeling it is pretty torquey, but I am also pretty light ...

Just as you've said there really, how you felt about the amount of pulling power it gives you compared with what you were expecting but looks like you've got plenty, a great motor then

 

[daenny]

So, today I took the bike for another round. It took me 20 minutes for about 8km through the city including traffic lights,etc. Google said it would be about 30 minutes, and I even had to look for the way a couple of times so I guess I could get even a bit faster. So until now I am quite happy. Sometime next week, I will mount the motor axle the other way around, until then I put some Ductape over the opening.
Next time I will let my phone track me as well to get a better idea of the speed, etc. I do not really trust the speed display as it jumps from 36 to 39 without intermediate steps.
Now I want more speeeeeed

 

[STEVEMANFA]

Daenny
Was it easy to fit?, I'm thinking of getting the same kit for my mongoose tylex bike, just have to hang on for pay day.
Are you happy with it so far?
Thanks
Steve

 

[daenny]

So kit is very easy to fit. Just see my "annoyances" list a few posts above.
The cables for the brakes were a tight fit with my bike, but I assume that woul not be a problem with yours if you have straight handlebars. Some other cables are a bit too long, but its a universal kit, so that is normal I guess. It was always quite well measured.
The hardest part was for me to align the PAS with the disc, since at first the distance was too large so I missed some PAS signals which lead to motor cutouts when I was pedalling. Now I put some spacing behind the sensor mount so that it gets closer to the disc and I had no more problems until now.
I also had mounted the Motor upside down, which I fixed yesterday, but it's not a big deal, only rain might be an issue...
The motor is pretty strong, pushing me comfortably to 32kph slight uphill and 36kph on flats with a full battery, but consistently over 30kph, even with less than half charge. At the moment I rode about 30km with mainly full power support, but also light pedalling and around half of the battery charge is gone. So when being a bit economic you probably get 70+km easily.
The motor kicks in directly with full power, so that gives you a quite strong push, especially with the "power" settings, but even with "economic" the push is a bit on the rough side in the start, since the motor kicks in with quite some power. I do not know if that is different with other kits though. When you are driving this is not as present. Generally I am very happy for now.
The motor is a bit on the heavy side, I think for me a smaller motor would have been enough, but then again the possibility to go with a bit more speed uphill is nice. As a first kit this is probably a good option to consider.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The motor kicks in directly with full power, so that gives you a quite strong push, especially with the "power" settings, but even with "economic" the push is a bit on the rough side in the start, since the motor kicks in with quite some power. I do not know if that is different with other kits though. When you are driving this is not as present.

Is it a sine wave or a square wave controller? Mine is sine wave and it is strong and smooth at full power.

 

[parasole]

I just checked with Andrew about that. All the 11Ah CST kits now come with the SWX02 CST motor and a new LCD.....
....It's a bigger motor than a normal Bafang SWX, but smaller than the BPM or big CST, It should provide plenty of torque.

Hi d8veh,
New to the forum, however reading it for a while...

little bit old tread however actual for me (almost replicated my question on endless-sphere), possible you know now more about, how is comparing SWX02 to Xiongda in terms of hill climbing ability?
How close to the reality is declared torque of 45N.m, I assume it is correct model:
http://www.woaczh.com/show_content.php?id=3917

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Xiongda has a gear system that reduces the internal ratio to nearly half of that of the SWX02, so, in low gear, it makes nearly double the torque and half the speed, when it has the same current and voltage as the SWX02.

You only need that torque if you're very heavy or you have very steep hills - say steeper than 20%. The SWX02 or the Q128 at 48v have enough torque and speed for nearly everything without the complication of the two speed gear system and the Xiongda's width. It's the Xiongda's width that brings all the complications when installing the motor. It wouldn't be a problem with a single or five speed final drive.

 

[derf]

The Xiongda has a gear system that reduces the internal ratio to nearly half of that of the SWX02, so, in low gear, it makes nearly double the torque and half the speed, when it has the same current and voltage as the SWX02.

You only need that torque if you're very heavy or you have very steep hills - say steeper than 20%. The SWX02 or the Q128 at 48v have enough torque and speed for nearly everything without the complication of the two speed gear system and the Xiongda's width. It's the Xiongda's width that brings all the complications when installing the motor. It wouldn't be a problem with a single or five speed final drive.

agree, I used to be 90kg and had a run of the mill SWX02 that with usual 18A 36V (around 600W) relatively effortlessly with minimal input lugged me, 10kg saddlebag and 25kg bike up very steep hills (steepest I could find) at around 8 to 10 mph.

 

[anotherkiwi]

It's the Xiongda's width that brings all the complications when installing the motor. It wouldn't be a problem with a single or five speed final drive.

I had thought that it would be great with a pinion gear box. The pinions extended range 9 speed plus two Xiongda powered speeds is a pretty exciting proposition.

 

[parasole]

in low gear, it makes nearly double the torque and half the speed, when it has the same current and voltage as the SWX02.

Thanks d8veh, that answers my question, it looks like Xiongda would really shine in very hilly area you would need very frequent change for the gears, that added complexity would be offset by drive efficiency and torque availability on demand...
I am tending to give a try for this motor, I have factory built e-bike with front drive which do not satisfy my needs and would be a very easy adaptation to Xiongda... my fear is only about the possibility to have the motor locked out mecanically while in high speed, that's why SWX02 is on the table too ... do you think this is a real issue or my conclusions are wrong? If taking care about rolling back the bike accuratelly and not to screw up the gears if it is locked, do you think it will be good enough to prevent sun gear shelling?

 

[parasole]

agree, I used to be 90kg and had a run of the mill SWX02 that with usual 18A 36V (around 600W) relatively effortlessly with minimal input lugged me, 10kg saddlebag and 25kg bike up very steep hills (steepest I could find) at around 8 to 10 mph.

Thanks derf, that sounds promising...

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Thanks d8veh, that answers my question, it looks like Xiongda would really shine in very hilly area you would need very frequent change for the gears, that added complexity would be offset by drive efficiency and torque availability on demand...
I am tending to give a try for this motor, I have factory built e-bike with front drive which do not satisfy my needs and would be a very easy adaptation to Xiongda... my fear is only about the possibility to have the motor locked out mecanically while in high speed, that's why SWX02 is on the table too ... do you think this is a real issue or my conclusions are wrong? If taking care about rolling back the bike accuratelly and not to screw up the gears if it is locked, do you think it will be good enough to prevent sun gear shelling?

There might be the possibility to fit a front Xiongda motor. The width is not a problem if you have rim brakes. If you want a disc brake, you can't have suspension forks. Whatever you have, you can change the forks to steel disc brake non-suspension ones.

The rear motor would fit any bike with rim brakes, though you have to stretch the frame a bit and put a spacer on the left side to bring the rim central to the frame.

If you give exact details (picture) of your bike, I can give more specific advice.

 

[parasole]

There might be the possibility to fit a front Xiongda motor. The width is not a problem if you have rim brakes. If you want a disc brake, you can't have suspension forks. Whatever you have, you can change the forks to steel disc brake non-suspension ones.

My main dillema is to decide between these two hubs considering the outlined points, potentially higher efficiency for Xiongda versus better reliability for SWX02...
I want to retrofit my existing e-bike, thus I am looking for front motor as an easy option. The bike is having steel frame and fork and is quite heavy... The front dropout width is 100mm and it does have rim brakes, to me it looks perfectly ok to accept ether Xongda or SWX02.
I will post a picture in the evening....

 

[trex]

I don't get the attraction of the XD2. It's not any lighter than the SWX02 and certainly not ubiquitous like the SWX02 and all those non-Hall motors with 3-pin cables. It's certainly not any cheaper. It has drag in both directions.
Why do you want complexity when there is no need?

 

[parasole]

Why do you want complexity when there is no need?

I was almost certain on Xiongda before finding SWX02 to have same mass and aproximatively same torque if comparing Xiongda in low gear... Two speed hub motor is attractive idea, in theory it should provide a better milleage, and main question was if it is worth of it... I was ready for a try thus wanted to know peoples opinion who knwo both motors. By now I am sliding toward SWH02...

 

[trex]

I am probably the first person in the UK to have samples and test the early xiongda XD motors. Xiongda have probably improved the gearbox since. However, I don't think there is any difference in power consumption. If anything, the core of the SWX02 is bigger, giving it an advantage.

 

[parasole]

If anything, the core of the SWX02 is bigger, giving it an advantage.

Yep, this is what I consider too, possible is a better trade off to have bigger mass on motor side than in gearbox... I think I am convinced about better investment in SWX02 than Xiongda...

Thank you all for your feedback and advises, it helps me out on my final decision.