Whoosh Crank-Drive Tongsheng Kit review.

vidtek

Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
178
42
68
Bournemouth BH12
#1
Most of this is taken from my post number #78 on a thread I started last year. https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/pswpower-after-sales-service.33423/

I recently purchased a Specialized Crossroads lightweight road bike from our local charity bike shop here in Bournemouth, "Hope to Cycle".
I bought it specifically to fit a new ebike kit. After much humming and haaing, I plumped for a kit from Whoosh, so glad I did. This is the kit from Whoosh: Tongsheng 48V 250W TSDZ2 kit with new VLCD5.

The kit arrived and I had real difficulty removing the bottom bracket. I eventually gave up after contemplating my large lump hammer on the bench and took it to the local bike shop Hope to Cycle. They had to employ a boilermaker's 3ft spanner to shift it after heating/cooling the bracket, eventually they shifted it.

I decided it may be prudent to get them to fit the motor while it was there. The only other difficulty was the gap between the bottom bracket and the motor housing is about 3mm. This is a crucial measurement and before getting a crank drive kit upend your bike and check the height of your guide, it cannot be more than 3mm from the crank bottom.

The guide for the rear gearset is attached to all standard bike's bottom bracket here and most are well over 5mm, mine was almost 15mm. There is no way the motor would slide into the bottom bracket housing with this guide in place. The bike mechanic tried 3 different guides, all had much too high a profile to allow the motor to slide into the bottom bracket. In the end, he said lose the guide altogether, let the bottom bracket decide where the cable goes and we will just hope for the best. Not a very satisfactory outcome, I'm a firm believer in the manufacturer knowing more than I, they do not fit extra parts for the sake of it.



rear_derailleur_guide.jpg This is the guide I cut down to 3mm with a dremel. underneath_bbracket.jpg

Here is the fitted motor from underneath taken before I added the cut-down guide


underneath_bbracket_motor_fitted.jpg

I decided to remove the motor again and see what I could fabricate to replace the guide which had been discarded by the bike mechanic. I searched through his collection of old dumped bikes at the back of his shop and found a couple which were of a much smaller profile than the original.
I upended the bike and set to work with my dremel.
3/4 of an hour later, I had finally removed enough material to allow the motor to fit and still left enough material for the guide to do it's job.
I feel much happier now that the guide is back in place.

There are more pictures but this forum has a 10 picture limit per post. I'll put the rest in the next post.
Tony.
 
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vidtek

Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
178
42
68
Bournemouth BH12
#2
To continue with the rest of the pictures:
battery_fitment.jpg Battery Fitting crank_area_top_left.jpg Crank area Left fitted_sensor.jpg Sensor placement

right_top_view_bbracket.jpg Top view bottom bracket right top_view_bbracket.jpg Top view bottom bracket right

front_handlebar.jpg Front handlebars left handlebar_from_front.jpg Front handlebars right handlebar_with_display_new_lh_brake_lever.jpg Display

left_side.jpg Left side right_side.jpg Right side

Jan 17th 2019
Road test. It has been really shitty weather here in Bournemouth for the last few days, but I was impatient to try the bike and yesterday gave it a bit of a run. It wasn't a hard rain just spits and spots. I needed some stuff from the supermarket so I headed off to our local shopping centre, Castlepoint, just 4 miles away. The route from the Bournemouth University is very urban for most of the way, with a little bit of parkland at Redhill, mostly on the flat. The local council has just spent 2 years and millions of taxpayers money with traffic holdups for years putting in new cycleways along this route, so I thought I'd give it a go. In the 4 miles I spotted only one other cyclist going the other way.

The bike performed flawlessly, everything worked as it should, and the motor was virtually silent. I haven't tweaked anything, other than setting the wheel size to 700. There is one slight gradient on the return journey and I did not even need to change gears. The motor responded beautifully to my slight increase in pedal effort and I just glided up this slight incline. There was also a bit of a breeze, about 15mph against me on this gradient.

So far I have been very impressed, It has performed just as expected, did I mention how silent it is?

When the weather improves I will take it to the town centre and try my luck at the infamous Richmond Hill.
I can't believe our idiot council actually put a cycle lane up this hill. I have never seen any cyclist attempt it, I certainly wouldn't without assist. In the old days of trolley buses the conductors made every passenger get off and walk up this hill because the bus just wouldn't make it with a full complement of passengers.
My Whoosh Sunbear had a bit of difficulty up this hill, my Eagle Freego wouldn't even look at it.
I will report back after my attempt with this kit.

Jan 18th 2019
Today really cold wind and no sun, but managed to get into town and attempted the Richmond Hill climb.
Very impressed, I put it in the lowest gear and the highest assist level and she just glided up the hill with just a whisper of motor noise, effortlessly at 6mph with me making a token effort at pedalling just to show willing.

With these results so far I have no hesitation in recommending this kit. We will have to see what it is like in a year's time to be absolutely sure.

Jan 20th 2019
Down through the Bournemouth Gardens cycle paths to Bournemouth Pier, then along to Sandbanks. Beautiful day, sunny and slight breeze. It's too silent and with all the pedestrians in the way bell working overtime, just tootling along with no assist for most of the way, 5-6mph. Others have complained the TSDZ2 motor is noisy, maybe that is from the earlier production models, or perhaps I just scored a silent one.

I rather think I'll just leave it as stock for a year or so, then when the warranty runs out get an LCD3 and tinker with the firmware. I think the open-source firmware has settings which extend battery life and is kinder to the motor, if Whoosh can supply the LCD 3 so much the better.
 

Eagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2012
376
88
#3
vidtek,
For those of us who are unfamiliar with Richmond Hill in Bournemouth, how steep is it percentage-wise on average?
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
871
371
Basildon
#4
I've had the same problem with the cable guide under the bottom bracket. The simple solution is to run an outer cable from the points either side, so you can route the cables around or over the motor. There's nothing to stop you running an outer cable all the way from the levers to the brake or derailleur. Cables are only a couple of quid in Wilkos.
 

vidtek

Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
178
42
68
Bournemouth BH12
#5
vidtek,
For those of us who are unfamiliar with Richmond Hill in Bournemouth, how steep is it percentage-wise on average?
I have no idea, there is no sign, but even the first diesel buses had to unload their passengers to ascend. At a guess, I would say it's about a 1 in 4 - it is a very short hill - I suppose that would be 25%, I don't do the new way of expressing hills, sorry I'm an old fart.

Just googled it and this came up:
https://road.cc/content/news/100093...e-warned-you-and-now-youve-built-unsafe-cycle

This is a 1983 'photo, not too sure about copyright, no copyright infringement is intended.







This is a more recent picture-no copyright infringement is intended
 
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vidtek

Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
178
42
68
Bournemouth BH12
#6
I've had the same problem with the cable guide under the bottom bracket. The simple solution is to run an outer cable from the points either side, so you can route the cables around or over the motor. There's nothing to stop you running an outer cable all the way from the levers to the brake or derailleur. Cables are only a couple of quid in Wilkos.
To be honest, it never even occurred to me to re-route the cables - doh!
I was just concentrating on trying to maintain the bike in as original condition as possible, for when I need to use it as a standard bike. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer am I?
 

Hipaul

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 30, 2018
6
0
#7
I am at the stage were I would like to fit a crank drive kit to my wifes bike initially, then mine if results are favourable. So, I much appreciate you taking the time sharing your experiences here.
Would you mind me asking a couple of questions? Does this system allow different power assistance settings and how long did your battery last please?
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,085
2,378
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
#8
Hello Paul,

The VLCD5 that comes with the Tongsheng kit has 5 settings: off, eco, tour, speed and turbo.
The kit is supplied with a 48V 12AH battery, more than 500WH, good for about 40-45 miles.
If you pedal a lot, then you'll get more miles out of a full charge. If you live in a very hilly area, a bit less.
 

vidtek

Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
178
42
68
Bournemouth BH12
#9
I am at the stage were I would like to fit a crank drive kit to my wifes bike initially, then mine if results are favourable. So, I much appreciate you taking the time sharing your experiences here.
Would you mind me asking a couple of questions? Does this system allow different power assistance settings and how long did your battery last please?
Hello Paul,
As Whoosh have said, there are 5 levels of assist, in practice I find there is little difference in the middle 4 levels, I just go straight from 1 to 5 depending on terrain. I try to do as much without any assist as I can, but as I am inherently lazy this doesn't work when there is even a slight breeze or hill!
As for battery life, I have not yet managed to exhaust it yet, even on hilly terrain. The furthest I have done is 23 miles of assorted terrain, but one day one of my cranks fell off (almost) and so I used the throttle continuously for about 5 miles, partly uphill. When I got home the battery still read 3/4 full (how accurate that is I have no idea).

The 4 outstanding features of this kit are:
1) Whoosh support local in the UK
2) Street legal, no worries about having an accident and being sued
3) How quiet it is
4) The instant power generated when the throttle is used, it is just brilliant for starting off.

Hope this helps Paul.
 

Hipaul

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 30, 2018
6
0
#10
Hello Paul,

The VLCD5 that comes with the Tongsheng kit has 5 settings: off, eco, tour, speed and turbo.
The kit is supplied with a 48V 12AH battery, more than 500WH, good for about 40-45 miles.
If you pedal a lot, then you'll get more miles out of a full charge. If you live in a very hilly area, a bit less.
Thankyou very much for that info. As I'm looking at travelling maybe abroad with the bikes weight is a big issue especially as my rack is on the roof of my car. Does the battery sit in a holder which makes it easily removable?
As a complete kit including battery how much are they selling for please?
 

vidtek

Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
178
42
68
Bournemouth BH12
#11
Paul-
The motor itself doesn't weigh an awful lot, the other bits and pieces have negligible weight, so if you can lift the bike now, then it will still be ok, with just a kilo or so extra with battery off. The battery comes with a cradle that attaches to the down tube where a water bottle would normally sit, the holes are a standard fit. It also comes with rivnuts if you do not have a bottle or threads where they fit.

The battery slides up from the cradle after unlocking with the keys supplied.
I seem to remember my complete kit was about £680, but Andy will have the exact price.

If you have heavy older bikes, I would suggest you do what I did, donate them to charity and buy a couple of bikes from the charity shop. I went through all their stock and lifted each one until I found the lightest and they then prepared that for me, new cables, brakes, chain, sprockets and chainrings etc. They literally had hundreds in their "to do up shed". You won't regret getting lighter bikes if you're sticking them on a roof rack.
I still half own a factory in Australia where we import leisure trailers from France.
We have small trailers that can be fitted with GRP type solid roofs, a roof rack could then be added to that for transporting bikes making it a lot easier to get the bikes on and off. You can buy the Trigano trailers here too under the Trelgo and assorted other brands. Erde also sell them here, but their roofs have a tendency to peel after a while.
 

Eagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2012
376
88
#12
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Eagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2012
376
88
#13
vidtek,
I suspect that the TSDZ2 kits are still using the original blue nylon reduction gear and cheap sprag clutch bearing. No doubt Woosh can confirm this.
On the basis of the links below it would seem likely that both these parts will need replacing after a certain time with more robust items.

The first link has details of this problem and the suitable replacements right at the beginning of the video:

Some photos of the motor’s internals here:
https://www.electricbike.com/tsdz2-750w-mid-drive-torque-sensing/

Full stripdown of TSDZ2:
(at 9m 52s for blue nylon gear)
 

vidtek

Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
178
42
68
Bournemouth BH12
#14
Hi Eagle-
I have seen these videos and have researched the problems associated with the blue gears. Andy told me they have had no problems with them so I suspect they have either been changed or the blue gears only give problems in extreme usage scenarios.
I rang and asked him if when I receive the motor if I should lubricate them as in the videos, he said they were checked by them and did not recommend I open it up.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,085
2,378
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
#15
On the basis of the links below it would seem likely that both these parts will need replacing after a certain time with more robust items.
I've checked one sample after 4,000 miles. The blue gear is in still pretty good condition.
The main thing to remember is the stress on the gear goes up with the number of teeth on your chainring. If you keep to the 42T on the original ring or if you have a double ring, climb hills on the smaller ring, you should be fine.
 

Eagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2012
376
88
#16
Woosh,
Thanks for that info.
 

peter.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2018
573
31
thurrock essex
#17
Hi Eagle I built a zobop with a bbs02 not sure if the tsdz 2 rear mount will fit on the zobop frame
 

Eagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2012
376
88
#18
peter.c,
Thanks.
I just mentioned the Zobop as an example of a full suspension bike. Naturally it would be essential to double check a donor bike's down tube for fitting a battery without fouling the rear suspension etc.
The bottom bracket would also have to be the right size and type.
There are perhaps other considerations with gears and brakes.
Just out of interest and for the benefit of other members, do you know of any suitable FS donor bikes for a Tongsheng TSDZ2 kit?
Woosh probably knows.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,085
2,378
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
#20
Hi Eagle I built a zobop with a bbs02 not sure if the tsdz 2 rear mount will fit on the zobop frame
it won't. The gearbox on the TSDZ2 is about 15mm wider than the gearbox on the BBS01/BBS02.
 

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