Wisper eMTB sneak preview

[Trevormonty]

I've a Shimano E6000 and it has proven reliable but it is urban bike. The batteries are another story, two 400whr batteries both losing significant capacity over few months. When good go from 15-8% in a second, after a year 2500km goes from 25%-8%.

No issues with Bosch 500WH battery which have good reputation.

Where E8000 shines over CX is protected display, user friendly assisted trigger and large chainring. CX small chainring doesn't like mud as I'm finding out, had to can a ride due to chain suck. Also a prick to clean compared to large chainring.

 

[AndrewJ]

The Brose was very nice indeed, quiet and smooth, we preferred it to Bosch, but were a little worried about back up. We were going to use the Brose motor in the Lotus Wisper five years ago, but they were very flaky then and that really put us off for our new models.

View attachment 20610

We also felt Shimano were more in touch with the needs and wants of Cyclists in general.

All the best, David

Finally had the chance to test the Brose earlier today; very quiet; quietest mid drive I've ridden. Very natural pedalling cadence and as such smooth power delivery. Looking forward to the Brose S version which will have a wider power delivery in terms of torque, but very impressed with this system on the short ride I had with it (tipping it down today; no waterproofs). The place that stocked a Steps system didn't allow me to test ride it as it was raining...it also wasn't a e8000 but the urban version. Trying to find an e8000 locally to Herts to compare...

 

[Wisper Bikes]

So the maker says there are 'no issues' - where have we heard that before?

As ever, the first response is to deny a problem exists.

Shimano now seem to be saying the problem that didn't exist has been sorted by upgrades to later models.

Once again, we've heard that before.

All this doublespeak makes me wonder if Shimano has employed that American defence spokesman with his 'known unknowns'.

I don't speak or read German, but I'm guessing the motors only overheat after a good thrashing - use to which very few owners would put them to.

The purchase decision is a tough one, the Bosch motor is proven, so why take even a small risk on something that's still in development?

Access to superior performance is always a temptation, but given that both motors are UK legal, I doubt there's a significant difference between them.

Hi Rob,

Having sold Bosch motors for three years I can assure you we had to replace several motors and a few batteries so don't for a minute imagine Bosch is not prone to problems. For example, last month we had to send two Bosch motors back due to the clutch completely failing.

Like any conscientious business, Shimano having seen there were issues created by simply turning up the power on the E6000 groupset to cater for the eMTB market, have engineered an entirely new product the 2017/18 E8000.

As you are aware, we know Bosch very well, it would have been so easy for us simply to continue with the product. After due consideration, we chose to move to a slightly more expensive groupset. In the group's opinion both here and in Taiwan the Shimano E8000 is a better product than the Bosch CX in terms of MTB use. It's lighter, smoother, quieter, it allows us to get the rear wheel much closer to the BB so we can offer the same handling characteristics as a high end non-electric MTB and finally it's power delivery can be programmed by the rider to suit their needs. To be honest it was a no brainer!

There is nothing wrong with Bosch it's a good system, we are considering using the new Active system for our City and Trekking models, it's currently between Bosch and the new Shimano E6100 which we are yet to try.

Scott, Merida, Ghost, Orange, Focus, Diamondback and Rock Machine are amongst the eMTB brands that offer the new Shimano E8000, it's not only us that think the system is amazing!

all the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Finally had the chance to test the Brose earlier today; very quiet; quietest mid drive I've ridden. Very natural pedalling cadence and as such smooth power delivery. Looking forward to the Brose S version which will have a wider power delivery in terms of torque, but very impressed with this system on the short ride I had with it (tipping it down today; no waterproofs). The place that stocked a Steps system didn't allow me to test ride it as it was raining...it also wasn't a e8000 but the urban version. Trying to find an e8000 locally to Herts to compare...

Hi Andrew, I agree the Brose system is also superb. It was only the back up problems that frightened us off. We will have the first of our Wisper eMTB range here in Sevenoaks later this month or we can get one up to Flat Earth in Hertfordshire if you would like to give it a spin.

All the best, David

 

[Trevormonty]

"There is nothing wrong with Bosch it's a good system, we are considering using the new Active system for our City and Trekking models, it's currently between Bosch and the new Shimano E6100 which we are yet to try."

I'd go with quieter one. For urban riding Bosch controls and display are fine, E6000's are still better but not enough to matter.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks for your input Trevor! Much appreciated.

All the best, David

 

[anotherkiwi]

And now Yamaha re-enters the game with a new version of their motor...

 

[RobF]

Hi Rob,

Having sold Bosch motors for three years I can assure you we had to replace several motors and a few batteries so don't for a minute imagine Bosch is not prone to problems. For example, last month we had to send two Bosch motors back due to the clutch completely failing.

Like any conscientious business, Shimano having seen there were issues created by simply turning up the power on the E6000 groupset to cater for the eMTB market, have engineered an entirely new product the 2017/18 E8000.

As you are aware, we know Bosch very well, it would have been so easy for us simply to continue with the product. After due consideration, we chose to move to a slightly more expensive groupset. In the group's opinion both here and in Taiwan the Shimano E8000 is a better product than the Bosch CX in terms of MTB use. It's lighter, smoother, quieter, it allows us to get the rear wheel much closer to the BB so we can offer the same handling characteristics as a high end non-electric MTB and finally it's power delivery can be programmed by the rider to suit their needs. To be honest it was a no brainer!

There is nothing wrong with Bosch it's a good system, we are considering using the new Active system for our City and Trekking models, it's currently between Bosch and the new Shimano E6100 which we are yet to try.

Scott, Merida, Ghost, Orange, Focus, Diamondback and Rock Machine are amongst the eMTB brands that offer the new Shimano E8000, it's not only us that think the system is amazing!

all the best, David

Given that Bosch produced their millionth motor a couple of years ago, and production has almost certainly increased since then, failure rates are probably the lowest of any of the crank drive motors.

In my limited experience, Shimano has always been pretty good at fixing things when they do go wrong.

I note the spokesman said the performance of the new motor is being monitored in the field, which is fine if you don't mind being part of the development process.

Something similar happened with the Alfine 11 gear hub.

It was released, and a lot conked out.

Mine was fixed outside the warranty period, so in that respect I was a happy enough customer.

Moving on, I see among the gazillion new Haibikes in the 2018 dealer book there is a carbon hard tail/Bosch drive for 3,500euro.

You know a lot more about marketing than me, but I reckon the Wisper bike, as the new kid on the block with the new motor, will need to be a bit cheaper than that to entice buyers away from the known option.

 

[Woosh]

You know a lot more about marketing than me, but I reckon the Wisper bike, as the new kid on the block with the new motor, will need to be a bit cheaper than that to entice buyers away from the known option

I think I would side with Wisper on this one. If you set out to put a toe in a new pond, it's probably safer to go for the best motor available. The Shimano E8000 kit is not only excellent (they are the XT class) but also freely available. That means you can source them easily without worries about quotas and other restrictive service arrangements.
As for high selling price, it is down to market conditions. The Bosch bikes are truly a cut throat market for manufacturers.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Woosh, that about wraps it up. We have to be at the cutting edge to compete, I don't think a "me too" product would cut the ice. We don't have the buying power of the big kids on the block so we need to be different and better.

This may all be a waste of time and money, but unless we try we will never know!

Thanks for your support Woosh, much appreciated!

All the best, David

 

[Crockers]

David

At the end there will be only two types of players left.

The mighty

And the

Mighty good.

Hope it all goes well.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

David

At the end there will be only two types of players left.

The mighty

And the

Mighty good.

Hope it all goes well.

Thanks! No one could every say we didn't try.

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The first ever Wisper Wolf C frame all finished and lacquered.

Very excited, should see the finished bike in a week or so.

 

[RobF]

The first ever Wisper Wolf C frame all finished and lacquered.

Very excited, should see the finished bike in a week or so.

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What's that I see on the rear of the seat post - a Union Jack?

Members with long memories will recall a heated discussion on here following the last time Wisper put the flag on one of their Chinese bikes.

I think David Miall is a very naughty boy for doing it again.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

What's that I see on the rear of the seat post - a Union Jack?

Members with long memories will recall a heated discussion on here following the last time Wisper put the flag on one of their Chinese bikes.

I think David Miall is a very naughty boy for doing it again.

I know, I know, the jury is still out on whether we put it onto production models. I am sure you can understand the point I am making without the need for prolonged discussion!

Although IMO it's a catastrophe to be out of Europe, I am still rather proud of my country and that the bike was at least conceived and taken to market by a group of British enthusiasts.

Incidentally, Advertising Standards gave me the go ahead to use the flag last time as long as the country of origin was not hidden. The reason I stopped is that everyone else jumped on the bandwagon!

What to do?

All the best, David

 

[Woosh]

I'd say: don't.
If you play fair, you always get to keep the moral high ground.

 

[LeighPing]

I am still rather proud of my country and that the bike was at least conceived and taken to market by a group of British enthusiasts.

It's a "Yes!" from me.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I'd say: don't.
If you play fair, you always get to keep the moral high ground.

Is it fair though? On the web site and on the bike we will clearly state Made in Taiwan.

We are a British company. Why not show that?

We have just taken our first serious overseas enquiry for 40 bikes to New Zealand. They love the fact the frame is made in Taiwan, the bike is built in Taiwan and we are a British business. They certainly want the flag on their bikes. Can we not be proud to show the Brits are still innovators at least?

Atb David

 

[Woosh]

We are a British company. Why not show that?

If you fly the flag next to the Wisper logo, the link 'British company' is clear.
If you put the flag in isolation, there is ambiguity in the message.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Good point... so if we put a logo on the seat tube above the flag it's more in keeping?