Woosh Krieger Review

Tomtomato

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 28, 2015
388
196
OK, so you got £250 discount to post a very positive review. Sounds like a good deal to me.

I do like the need to post some bank statements and the irrefutable proof they provide... What's the account number, and your mother's maiden name?

Just teasing ;)

If your budget was up to £1,000, then you are right, not a lot of crank drive bikes to chose from anyway. I do like the fact that the components installed are standards (display, motor, battery), and therefore easy to procure/replace if required. That's not the case for many other crank-driven bikes, where replacement motors for instance cannot be bought easily.
 

JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
1,486
736
OK, so you got £250 discount to post a very positive review. Sounds like a good deal to me.

I do like the need to post some bank statements and the irrefutable proof they provide... What's the account number, and your mother's maiden name?

Just teasing ;)

If your budget was up to £1,000, then you are right, not a lot of crank drive bikes to chose from anyway. I do like the fact that the components installed are standards (display, motor, battery), and therefore easy to procure/replace if required. That's not the case for many other crank-driven bikes, where replacement motors for instance cannot be bought easily.

He said he paid £650 card and £250 cash. Nothing about a discount. You’re like a dog with a bone.
 

acm2000

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2015
118
39
Ipswich
Oh how I wish I got £250 discount lol, she did knock off £30 tho as I got the ncx upgrade but took home on the day so saved them the delivery.

Still had to clench when handing over £900 as I originally planned on spending only £650!
 

acm2000

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2015
118
39
Ipswich
35 miles down and the battery has finally dropped to halfway, very glad i got one with 15AH pack as hopefully only need to charge once a week!
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,310
35 miles down and the battery has finally dropped to halfway, very glad i got one with 15AH pack as hopefully only need to charge once a week!
Ebike batteries work and last better if they are used from full, so you may as well recharge now.
 

acm2000

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2015
118
39
Ipswich
Ebike batteries work and last better if they are used from full, so you may as well recharge now.
yeah i plan on recharging it tonight, 5 days of commutes before having to charge is perfect for what i needed
 

JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
1,486
736
What he means is that the battery will last longer if it’s recharged after every trip. Even a 10 mile trip. The motor will have more power with a full battery too.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,670
as you use your bike every day, try to charge it once a week rather than each day. The battery works by moving Lithium ions from one electrode to the other, when the battery is full, nearly100% Lithium is stored at the anode.
If you charge it everytime after using 20% of its capacity, 80% to 100% Lithium will remain at the anode. The anode will lose its elasticity over time and will tend to swell against the cathode. I know the temptation is strong to recharge and get a bit more poke from a full battery, but it's not good on long term.
Best wait if you can for it to be more than half depleted before charging.
 

acm2000

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2015
118
39
Ipswich
as you use your bike every day, try to charge it once a week rather than each day. The battery works by moving Lithium ions from one electrode to the other, when the battery is full, nearly100% Lithium is stored at the anode.
If you charge it everytime after using 20% of its capacity, 80% to 100% Lithium will remain at the anode. The anode will lose its elasticity over time and will tend to swell against the cathode. I know the temptation is strong to recharge and get a bit more poke from a full battery, but it's not good on long term.
Best wait if you can for it to be more than half depleted before charging.
yeah i plan on charging each weekend which would be around 30-35 miles or so and thus probably 40-50% battery given that its meant to do 60-70 on flat roads, im expecting 55ish with the big hill i have and my 85kg fat arse.

i always look after my batteries in all my devices, lith-ion is fairly easy to keep running well as long as you make sure to use it to at very least 50% although i am tempted to see just how many miles this thing can actually handle in real world usage
 
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JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
1,486
736
as you use your bike every day, try to charge it once a week rather than each day. The battery works by moving Lithium ions from one electrode to the other, when the battery is full, nearly100% Lithium is stored at the anode.
If you charge it everytime after using 20% of its capacity, 80% to 100% Lithium will remain at the anode. The anode will lose its elasticity over time and will tend to swell against the cathode. I know the temptation is strong to recharge and get a bit more poke from a full battery, but it's not good on long term.
Best wait if you can for it to be more than half depleted before charging.
You always get so many different views on battery management here, but all the bike manufacturers as far as I’m aware still tell you to charge after every trip. Assuming it wasn’t a very short one, and after every couple or three if they are quite short journeys.

It’s a bit like the storage thread a while back where again all the manufacturers say to keep batteries at room temperature, while others here flatly contradicted that and said they should be stored close to freezing. Now those people say that it makes no real difference anyway, so best to keep them at a cool room temperature. Which was what the dealers and manufacturers were saying all along.

So now all the dealers and manufactures are wrong about this too? Personally since they hold the warranty I’m inclined to follow their advice.
 
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acm2000

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2015
118
39
Ipswich
lithium-ion batteries are fairly simple to look after, e-bikes are no different.

do NOT do lots of small recharges (eats through charging cycles destroying the long term life of your cells)
DO discharge to around 50% at least before charging (will give you the best charge cycle to battery life ratio)
do NOT store or leave in high temperature areas (increases discharge rate)
DO keep the battery cool (0-25c as this decreases discharge rate)
DO fully discharge the battery once a month if possible (keeps everything "fresh" inside the cell)

these are the same rules for any lithium-ion cell, be it your mobile or your ebike
 

JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
1,486
736
A charging cycle is a full charge and discharge, whether it’s all in one go, or say four 25% charge/discharges making one full cycle. So recharging often doesn’t affect the amount of cycles the battery is good for. My German battery is rated as good for 1100 cycles, or say 2600 charges if charged when about 40% discharged. So about twelve years before the 1100 cycles are through used three or four times a week as I do. It will of course be dead long before that for other reasons and I won’t still have the bike anyway.

It’s generally reckoned that full regular discharges are not necessary with the latest battery technology and can be harmful. Although with some batteries like mine I should do it every six months or so to reset the BMS parameters. It never fully discharges thought as it cuts out while it still has a safe voltage.
First conditioning charge/discharges are considered unnecessary by most in the trade now too let alone every month. Modern e bike batteries are really quite sophisticated.
 
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acm2000

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2015
118
39
Ipswich
so much conflicting advice regarding batteries, its crazy. Technology is moving ahead so much yet the technology powering these things is still far behind our needs :/

Also rather annoyingly i see i cant edit my opening post so should i do a new thread for my full review next week or keep it in here as a reply?

also did a quick and dirty real world motor noise video (ignore my step daughter in the background, a car ahead of us totally wiped out a pigeon leaving a cloud of feathers lol)

 
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acm2000

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2015
118
39
Ipswich
Reviewer: Tony

Purchased From:
Woosh Bikes Southend http://www.wooshbikes.co.uk/?krieger

Purchase Price: £889 + £40 for NCX Seat Post Upgrade (Paid £900 as took away on the day without needing delivery)

Time Owned: Since 20th Sept, Used Daily Since

Local Terrain: Moderate Hills (Short hills up to 20%, long hills 12%)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Strengths:
  • 250w TCM Crank Drive Motor - Super powerful and has a good amount of torque thanks to the 36v 20Ah controller which will drive you up pretty much any hill you throw at it, much to the annoyance of other cyclists. Being crank driven you have the full ability to make the most out of all the gears with little to no effort.
  • Massive 15AH Battery - Provides a really good range without the need to carry a spare, worth hauling the extra weight around for and it uses the latest Samsung 2900mah cells.
  • Motor & Battery Position - Being positioned in the V of the frame gives a good balance and keeps the centre of gravity low (although others prefer having the weight over the rear wheel, after trying both this setup felt much nicer for me)
  • Noise - Actually very quiet in real world usage only ever raising its voice if your straining it up hill in too high of a gear, certainly quieter than the larger hub motor bikes i tried and quiet enough that people wont stare at you whizzing past them.
  • Quick Release Adjustable Handlebars - Something i personally had actually seen before but its fantastic to be able to adjust them on the fly depending on the type of ride your on, they can raise up quite a lot ideal for commuting, or drop them down if you want to pretend you're in the Olympic velodrome.
  • Fully Equipped - Comes with all the bells and whistles right down to the lights, just add a lock and a helmet and you're good to go.
  • Repairability - One of the benefits of all mid drives is that nearly all the usual cycle components are easily replaced as and when you need them right down to that awkward moment you get a puncture while cycling home from the girlfriends house and wife wonders why you're late.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Weaknesses:
  • Components - Some of the regular cycle components are of cheaper quality (although the important part of the gears are handled by Shimano) so the long term life of these will very much depend on how well you look after the bike.
  • Brakes - Maybe these will wear in? but they don't have the stopping power of my old fully disc braked up bike especially with the added weight of these things so maybe worth replacing down the line, would have also liked to have seen discs on both front & rear.
  • Weight - This girl isn't light... at 25KG she's a big bird and by the time you've added a lock and rear bag(s) she would probably be hard work if cycling without battery power for any prolonged time.
  • Gears - Would have loved to get the full 18 speed but you only get 8 so doesn't quite give you the flexibility for prolonged non electric use
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Neutral:

  • Price - Its very cheap for a mid drive e-bike, but its still a bit of an eye watering £890 and you will probably want the £40 NCX upgrade due to lack of rear suspension. Feel about this how you will, personally i think the price is a strength but others will probably compare it to a £500 e-bike and scoff at the price.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Summary:


Video run down of the bike:


Video of real world motor noise:


Gallery: https://goo.gl/photos/dGW8ezVKeka3sKwi8

Overall i couldn't be happier with this bike, its given me a lot of extra freedom as a non driver and although more expensive than i initially budgeted for i have no regrets as i nudge closer to my first 100 e-miles.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall Rating (out of 10) : 8.5/10 (Would've been a 9 if it had front and back disc brakes.)
 
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gray198

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 4, 2012
1,556
1,065
nice review. seems a lot of bike for the money and obviously some compromises have been made to get it in at that price

gray
 

acm2000

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2015
118
39
Ipswich
Passed the 100 e-miles barrier today!
 

Perseus

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 15, 2015
387
18
69
It seems cheap. I am not sure how I would stop the bike quick enough? Hub gears preferred. That'll up the cost.
 

acm2000

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2015
118
39
Ipswich
fairly sure you could bung on a rear disc brake easily if you want too but i have had no issues myself stopping in time with the awful traffic in my towns one way system.

apparently there is a tall rider version of the Krieger coming in december with front and back discs so maybe wait and see on that.

hub gears are great but really ramp the cost up a lot.
 
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acm2000

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2015
118
39
Ipswich
200 e-miles down, and loving it

time to give her a name, im veering towards Gertrude unless anyone has a better name.

one little issue ive had is a slightly iffy front brake lever, the micro switch for the cut off is temperamental but Andy at Woosh was very good in helping me try and fix the issue but to no avail so he is just sending me a whole new one, cant ask for more than that.
 

Perseus

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 15, 2015
387
18
69
Whoosh Kreiger looks good value for money (I like the throttle only option) but I really need* both hydraulic brakes and hub gears. Where can I see or try Whoosh bikes in Sussex. I don't like the look of the wide saddle illustrated. (*Traffic keeps stopping suddenly?)