Woosh Woosh TS BB kit

[RogerA]

Hi.

I'm hoping someone on here that has bought the new Woosh torque sensor BB can answer a couple of questions. I'm thinking of getting one to try but wanted to confirm a couple of things first. I tried sending a question on the Woosh website a couple of weeks ago but haven't had an answer. The questions I have are:
1. What are the dimensions of the controller? I need to fit it into the box in front of a rack battery
2. Is the cut off speed adjustable? I only use motor assist on hills so like to reduce the cut off to about 20kph so I can ride on the flat on pedal power without having to adjust the PAS levels.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Woosh]

1. What are the dimensions of the controller?

From memory, about 12cm x 9cm x 5cm. It's a standard 6 MOSFET controller except it is programmed for TS.= instead of cadence sensor.

I need to fit it into the box in front of a rack battery

It will fit inside the controller box of all rack batteries by Woosh, for other rack batteries, email a picture to support@wooshbikes.co.uk, Andy will check it for you.

2. Is the cut off speed adjustable?

Yes, like all standard controllers.

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/05/bbts/bbts-800.jpg

 

[RogerA]

Thanks for the quick response. That's quite a bit bigger than the kt controller I currently have. I'll have to do some measuring.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Hi.

I'm hoping someone on here that has bought the new Woosh torque sensor BB can answer a couple of questions. I'm thinking of getting one to try but wanted to confirm a couple of things first. I tried sending a question on the Woosh website a couple of weeks ago but haven't had an answer. The questions I have are:
1. What are the dimensions of the controller? I need to fit it into the box in front of a rack battery
2. Is the cut off speed adjustable? I only use motor assist on hills so like to reduce the cut off to about 20kph so I can ride on the flat on pedal power without having to adjust the PAS levels.

Thanks in advance.

I'm sure Woosh will be along soon but
1) approx 95mm *50mm *30mm - although obviously wires coming out the 95mm end
2) Yes. Although, because it is a power based 15 amp controller , level 1 (=0.2*15 = 3 amps) lets me cycle on the flat at 17mph (15.5mph assist limit + 10%) using very little power

 

[Woosh]

Peter has come to my rescue
Thank you.

 

[RogerA]

Thanks Peter.

That's about the size of my existing controller so should fit fine.

 

[RogerA]

I thought I'd give an update on this. I purchased the basic BBTS kit comprising just the bottom bracket, cranks, 44T chainring, controller and display. It took me a couple of weeks to get round to fitting it, but I now have, and it got it's first decent ride at the weekend.

The kit comes with very comprehensive instructions and there are more videos on the Woosh site to assist if needed. Once I'd managed to remove my old BB (which required a 3' extension bar, copious amounts of penetrating oil, a small blowtorch and a large amount of swearing) the new kit was very easy to install with only 4 connections required - battery, BB, motor and display.

First impressions...
there are a couple of annoying little niggles with the display:
1. Its size. I'm used to a KT lcd4 or 5. The M5 lcd that comes with the kit is quite large and mounts in the centre of the bars with a separate set of buttons next to the grip. Annoyingly the display has 31.8mm mountings and no shims for smaller bars, so I had to make some shims to fit it onto my standard 25.4mm bars.
2. The backlight has 3 settings... bright, brighter and brightest. There is no way to turn the backlight off.

There is one good point about the display...
1. You can set any wheel diameter to the nearest 0.1", meaning it can give an accurate speed/distance reading.

First ride...
I do a regular 23 mile round trip with about 520m of climbing every Saturday so it was a good comparison with the KT kit I replaced.
This is where I have some problems. As advised by Woosh earlier in this thread, I was able to lower the cut off speed to 19kph to match what I have had on the KT kit. Unfortunately, it ignored this limit. On the steepest hills In level 4, the bike was accelerating up to about 16-16.5mph before cutting out quite abruptly and restarting when the speed dropped to about 15mph. The power also seemed to kick in quite hard with only a very light pressure on the pedals.
I'm not sure if I have a setting wrong somewhere but at the moment it feels more like a speed controller than a torque controller.
I ended up needing to adjust power levels more than I usually do with the KT kit, plus I ended up using a lot more battery power. I usually get home with the battery showing 38.5-39V. With the new kit the battery was showing 37.3V when I got home.
If anyone on here has the system working properly and giving good torque based control could they confirm all their settings please. I've tried emailing Woosh to confirm them but had no reply so far.

 

[Woosh]

Did you email support@wooshbikes.co.uk? I can check for you.

 

[RogerA]

I replied to the last email I'd had from Andy

 

[Peter.Bridge]

The power also seemed to kick in quite hard with only a very light pressure on the pedals.
I'm not sure if I have a setting wrong somewhere but at the moment it feels more like a speed controller than a torque controller.

I quite often ride showing the current so level 1 is max 3 amps, level 2 max 6 amps up to level 5 max 15 amps. I find it doesn't need much torque on the pedals to get up to the maximum current/power for that level. I use the levels really to set the assistance rather than how hard I am pushing on the pedals. I googled the M5 LCD and I recall there was a setting for pedal sensitivity, was it parameter 11 ?
It certainly doesn't feel like a speed controller, in level 1 the assistance will take me to 17 mph cut off (15.5 +10%) on the flat.
This is how I wanted it to work really, the big benefits for the torque sensor to me is hill starts / starting off in the wrong gear, push the pedals and the motor kicks in and also I can slow down ghost pedaling to change gears without the motor kicking in.
I can understand somebody wanting a more 'proprtional' assistance based on how hard they are pedalling though.

I ended up using a lot more battery power. I usually get home with the battery showing 38.5-39V. With the new kit the battery was showing 37.3V when I got home.

On (very hilly) 30 mile rides it is definitely using more battery then my mid drive Bafang, for a similar speed, after the ride 48.5v Vs 49.5v (on the same 48v 20ah battery) but I had assumed this was that a mid drive was more efficient on hills.
I have been using it a lot, 3-4 20-30 mile rides per week and really enjoying it (but I haven't tried a KT system before)
The one problem I had was on a series of very steep hills (1 in 4) where the controller was overheating. I cut some big ventilation holes in the controller bag and also only used level 5 on the most extreme bits and that seems to have sorted it

 

[Nealh]

The TS BB isn't to disimilar to a KT controller in operation.
The 15a KT uses 1.95a /PAS1, 3a /PAS2 , 4.95A/PAS3 , 7.5a/PAS4 & 15a /PAS5.

The KT doesn't need a TS specific controller though because it is torque simulation in Chinese or means current control in English.

 

[Woosh]

I replied to the last email I'd had from Andy

I am sorry for ther delay. I will remind Andy later this morning.

The power also seemed to kick in quite hard with only a very light pressure on the pedals.

This is common to most torque sensor systems. The motor won't start until the bike moves though.
The initial push-off is supposed to help you starting off. It should only last very little time, just enough for the sensor to get regular pulses from your pedalling.

I ended up needing to adjust power levels more than I usually do with the KT kit, plus I ended up using a lot more battery power. I usually get home with the battery showing 38.5-39V. With the new kit the battery was showing 37.3V when I got home.

Torque system encourages you to pedal harder compared to cadence systems. If you use more battery than with the KT controller, that suggests that your average assist level is too high and the motor helping too much. Andy can help you with changing settings to suit your riding. I suggest keeping the assist level low until your battery consumption is less than with the KT controller before changing the factory settings.

As advised by Woosh earlier in this thread, I was able to lower the cut off speed to 19kph to match what I have had on the KT kit.

19kph =- 11.8mph, it's too low for road bikes, the BBTS is not programmed to reduce power before reaching the speed limit. Is there any specific reason why you need such a low cut off?

BTW, how many miles have you done with the BBTS?

 

[RogerA]

The system at the moment is using almost full power for each PAS level until it cuts off. It doesn't tail off once I'm moving. It seems far too sensitive.

I have the speed cut off at 19 kph so that on the flat I am riding above the cut off. This works well on the KT controller I've been using for the last couple of years, and according to your answer at the start of the thread it is possible with this controller. With a 201RPM motor in a 26"wheel it means that I am still within the efficient range for the motor when I use it for hill climbing.

I'm using more battery with the TS system because I'm being powered a lot more of the time. Where I would usually be riding under my own power, the TS system is still providing power and speeding me along faster than I want.

You say that "the BBTS is not programmed to reduce power before reaching the speed limit".
If it is a torque sensor, the power should be reduced when the force I'm putting on the pedals reduces. If it doesn't reduce until I hit the speed limit then it is a speed control system and not torque sensor.

I'm hoping there are some settings that I can change to give me more control. Otherwise, I think this is a failed test, and I will be reinstalling the KT kit.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

The system at the moment is using almost full power for each PAS level until it cuts off. It doesn't tail off once I'm moving. It seems far too sensitive.

I have the speed cut off at 19 kph so that on the flat I am riding above the cut off. This works well on the KT controller I've been using for the last couple of years, and according to your answer at the start of the thread it is possible with this controller. With a 201RPM motor in a 26"wheel it means that I am still within the efficient range for the motor when I use it for hill climbing.

I'm using more battery with the TS system because I'm being powered a lot more of the time. Where I would usually be riding under my own power, the TS system is still providing power and speeding me along faster than I want.

You say that "the BBTS is not programmed to reduce power before reaching the speed limit".
If it is a torque sensor, the power should be reduced when the force I'm putting on the pedals reduces. If it doesn't reduce until I hit the speed limit then it is a speed control system and not torque sensor.

I'm hoping there are some settings that I can change to give me more control. Otherwise, I think this is a failed test, and I will be reinstalling the KT kit.

Shengmilo M5 Display Settings

How to Set M5 LCD Display Parameters. Turn on the kit by pressing and holding the M button for 4-5 seconds. Press and hold the Up and Down arrows.

www.shengmilo-bikes.com

p11 and p12 ?

 

[Woosh]

You say that "the BBTS is not programmed to reduce power before reaching the speed limit".
If it is a torque sensor, the power should be reduced when the force I'm putting on the pedals reduces. If it doesn't reduce until I hit the speed limit then it is a speed control system and not torque sensor.

I agree that the power should be reduced when you put less pedalling force.
what I mean by "the BBTS is not programmed to reduce power before reaching the speed limit" is Bosch for example reduces the power when the speed approaches 25kph before cutting off while the BBTS will cut off as soon as the speedometer reaches the set speed limit. It is not as subtle as the Bosch.
Andy told me that he will check out your settings later today.

 

[RogerA]

Andy told me that he will check out your settings later today.

Thanks. I'm emailing with Andy. I'll report back how things work out.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I was able to lower the cut off speed to 19kph to match what I have had on the KT kit. Unfortunately, it ignored this limit. On the steepest hills In level 4, the bike was accelerating up to about 16-16.5mph before cutting out quite abruptly and restarting when the speed dropped to about 15mph.

Yep - just tried it on mine - the minimum "max assist speed" is 25km/h, whatever you set p08 to.

How about in the settings increasing the wheel size to 1.609*actual wheel size and change the display to miles. The figures on the display will actually be km/h. Then set P08 to 30 and it will cut out when it thinks it is reaching 30 km/h, but, because you adjusted the wheel size, this is really 19 km/h. The downside is when it says 15 mph you are actually doing 15 kph

 

[RogerA]

Yep - just tried it on mine - the minimum "max assist speed" is 25km/h, whatever you set p08 to.

How about in the settings increasing the wheel size to 1.609*actual wheel size and change the display to miles. The figures on the display will actually be km/h. Then set P08 to 30 and it will cut out when it thinks it is reaching 30 km/h, but, because you adjusted the wheel size, this is really 19 km/h. The downside is when it says 15 mph you are actually doing 15 kph

Thanks for confirming that yours behaves the same. I'll see what Andy comes up with regarding the torque power, but it looks as if bodging the wheel size may be the only solution for max speed.
I'll report back in a few days.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Thanks for confirming that yours behaves the same. I'll see what Andy comes up with regarding the torque power, but it looks as if bodging the wheel size may be the only solution for max speed.
I'll report back in a few days.

On my ride today, I had the display showing current and the current in each level did vary depending how hard I was pedalling - my recollection was that that anything other than light pedalling I hit the max current for that level, but that wasn't the case today so my recollection might be a bit off. (So for level 3, light pedalling was giving me 4 amps, medium pedalling 6 or 7 amps and hard pedalling I would approach 9 amps)

 

[Woosh]

but it looks as if bodging the wheel size may be the only solution for max speed.

I have the Chinese version of the LCD manual, here are the settings (don't change before discussing with Andy):


P01：Backlight brightness, level 1 is the darkest, level 3 is the brightest；

P02：Mileage unit，0：KM；1：MILE；

P03：Voltage level：24V，36V，48V，60V，64V; Default 36V；

P04：Sleep time：0，Not dormant；Other numbers refer to sleep time，Range：1-60；Unit minute；

P05：Assist level: 0, 3 level mode：

1, 5level mode:

P06: Wheel diameter：unit: inch；

2#Protocol Wheel diameter：5.0~50 Accuracy：0.1 inch

5S Protocol Wheel diameter：0:16 inch, 1:18 inch, 2:20 inch, 3:22 inch,

4:24 inch, 5:26 inch, 6:700c, 7:28 inch；

This parameter is related to the displayed speed on the instrument and needs to be entered correctly;

P07: Number of speed measuring magnetic steel：range：1-100；

This parameter is related to the displayed speed on the instrument and needs to be entered correctly;

If it is a regular hub motor, directly input the number of magnetic steel;

If it is a high-speed motor, the reduction ratio needs to be calculated, and the input data is the number of magnetic steel × Reduction ratio;

For example, the number of magnetic steel in the motor is 20, and the reduction ratio is 4.3. The input data is: 86=20×4.3

P08：Speed limit：2#Protocol, range 0-100km/h，100 represents unlimited speed；

5S Protocol 0-41km/h;

The input data here represents the maximum operating speed of the vehicle：For example, entering 25 indicates that the maximum operating speed of the vehicle will not exceed 25km/h; Maintain the driving speed at the set value,

• Error: ± 1km/h; (Speed limit for power assistance and rotating handle)

Note：The value here is based on kilometers. When the unit setting is converted from kilometers to miles, the speed value on the display interface will automatically be converted to the correct mile value. However, the speed limit data set in this menu under the mile interface will not be converted, which is inconsistent with the actual displayed mile speed limit value;

P09：Zero start and non zero start settings, 0: Zero start; 1: Non zero start;

P10：Drive mode setting

0: Power assisted drive (determines how much power is output through the power assisted gear, and at this time, the handle is invalid).

1 : Electric drive (driven by a rotating handle, at which point the assist gear is invalid).

2 : Coexistence of power assisted drive and electric drive.



P11：Assist sensitivity setting range：1-24；

P12：Power start intensity setting range：1-5；

P13：There are three types of magnetic steel discs for assistance: 5, 8, and 12 magnetic steel discs;

P14：Controller current limit setting default 12A range: 1-20A

P15：Controller undervoltage value

P16: ODO reset setting: Press and hold the up button for 5 seconds to reset ODO


I have emailed my supplier about the issue you raised (P08). When I get their reply, I will get back to you.