Xion drive motor drag.

gryffe1974

Pedelecer
Feb 3, 2014
29
0
45
Hi Folks,

Ive recently purchased a bike that's powered by Kalkhoff's new Xion rear hub drive motor and find the drag is pretty bad when the 15.5mph cut of is reached I realise this is always going to happen but I feel its a lot more noticeable with this set up than it was with my previous ebike that had a front hub brushless motor to the extent a lot of effort has to be put in to maintain any kind of speed above the cut off. Can I do anything to improve this? Was thinking about changing the current tyres for something more suited for on road use but would that make much of a difference, I would imagine de restriction would be the way forward but im not sure if it's possible with this system tell me more if it is.

Thanks.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
44,631
20,997
Your previous motor had a freewheel detaching the motor as soon as you exceeded it's operating speed, leaving you free to ride without the motor drag. Your new direct drive motor is always connected as an integral part of the wheel so there's nothing you can do to reduce it's drag.

The amount of tyre drag will be small on your bike so any improvement from that source will be extremely small, not compensating for the motor drag.

I don't know if derestriction is possible, but if they are sold in the USA you could check there online to see if theirs have the 20mph US limit.

I'm sorry I couldn't be more optimistic, but the drag on your system is the cost of it's other very real benefits. I would be in the same position as you, unable to gain anything much beyond 15 mph so I'd have to accept that as it's flat road speed.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
I'm not familiar with your system, but other similar ones have different modes of regen. Once you go over the speed limit, your motor becomes a generator, so it absorbs a lot of energy to charge the battery. there may be settings where you can switch that off.
 

gryffe1974

Pedelecer
Feb 3, 2014
29
0
45
the system has a braking regen that can be switched on when descending a hill but i make sure this is off its really frustrating hitting the brickwall at that speed. try before you buy as they say oh well not much i can do now.

cheers
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,557
5,037
www.kudoscycles.com
Reading through the 50 cycles website it says that the new Xion rear drive X24 has an automatic 'hill descent assistant brakes',the bike is set to a preset maximum speed,I assume 15,5 mph.
However if you read the reviews associated with that bike it describes climbing up a hill at 14 mph,then when reaching the top of the hill select,by tapping the brakes a bit,the downhill speed restrictor and engage regen.
It does say 'select'....so one assumes you have the opportunity of not selecting.
I think you need to have a chat with 50 cycles ,how you don't select this function.
When Kudos first bought e-bikes we were offered a bike with regen. Having worked hard to climb a hill,one of the joys of cycling is freewheeling downhill,that bike felt like riding through treacle downhill,it took away much of the fun of cycling,we rejected the bike.
The amount of regen energy was neglible,not worth the complexity.
There must be a way of turning off the downhill auto brakes,otherwise it's a bit 'big brotherish'
KudosDave
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
50Cycles should be ale to sort the software out if you ask them nicely. assuming that you ought it from them. it might be possible to set the speed limit even higher than 20mph.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
44,631
20,997
flecc,

the bike is onsale in the usa and has a limit of 20mph which sounds more like it but how do i upgrade the software to allow the extra speed?

http://newwheel.net/products/focus-jarifa-offroad-premium-electric-bike/
I don't know how that can be changed, as KudosDave and d8veh have said, you need to speak to 50cycles to see if they can help. I doubt if Kalkhoff will deal with you direct since the usual policy is to keep communications between the customer and the agent.

If all else fails, you could try contacting NewWheels or any other US agent for them to see if they can help with advice.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
The regeneration is selectable as in on/off and if one opts in, the set speed can be adjusted from several pre-selected fixed speeds.

All the information is contained on the Disk supplied with the bike but the display unit is pretty intuitive to use and it doesn't take long to understand how the bike's performance can be adjusted, either while stationary or while riding.

I'm making an assumption here that the OP hasn't got the settings right but, of course, he may well have a faulty bike. Either way, a word with 50 Cycles should provide some advice and guidance.

My own experience of the Xion drive differs in that I find it easy to cycle after assistance has finished and high teens on the flat is achievable at a manageable cadence if there's no serious headwind.

Having just had my first puncture to the Continental tyre set, (rear wheel - nightmare!) I have placed an order for MP Tours which will add about a pound and a half to the total bike weight which I can live with for the peace of mind provided.

Enjoyable bike!

Tom
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
It's a direct drive motor if I'm not mistaken ? When I tried one at NEC I immediately noticed the difference and decided I didn't like it. Go for an Impulse 2.0 :)
 

Jonah

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 23, 2010
738
173
EX38
As has been posted already, the 'regen' feature can be turned off completely using the settings menu on the handlebar display unit (which I have done because I don't like it). I would agree with oldtom that the drag isn't that noticeable on the Pro Connect (I think that gryffe1974 has a Focus Jarifa) which suggests to me that the tyres may be having an impact. I understand that the cut off speed can be updated but requires a 'tweek' by 50cycles. I have no personal experience of this.
 

Jonah

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 23, 2010
738
173
EX38
I understand that the cut off speed can be updated but requires a 'tweek' by 50cycles. I have no personal experience of this.
The good folk at 50cycles have advised me that no such tweek is available.
 

NotSoOldTom

Just Joined
May 28, 2014
2
0
60
Gryffe1974:

I have a similar Xion controlled pedelec. I have found that the drag is eliminated if you decrease the electric assist when going downhill. Take it to "zero assist" and I think you will agree that it feels pretty free flowing.

Tom
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
My Xion-drive goes just as quickly downhill as my other two ebikes so I really don't understand this 'drag' of which one or two correspondents complain.

Apart from my own bikes, I have test-ridden quite a few others and the Xion doesn't feel greatly different from the Haibike crank-drive once cut-off has been reached. Ditto for the Bionx-equipped Trek and the Sparta/Koga Ion-drive, another, similar hub motor.

Could there perhaps be a fault with some of these bikes?

Tom
 

Wheelie_bin

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 29, 2014
5
0
64
Bath
Agree with the comment about drag ON THE FLAT - although to be fair getting above 16 mph on an unassisted bike takes a lot of effort - so it's hard to be objective. Perhaps the Xion motor is so good up until 16mph it makes it seem worse than it is.

I thought the X24 was seriously well engineered at first (which is not to say it isn't), but the Xion drive is so silent you can be forgiven for thinking it hasn't cut in yet when gently cruising.

As regards downhill -
In my experience the brake assist function only cuts in if you are around the speed set. So if you are going at 20mph downhill it doesn't cut in. I think brake assist is misleading - it's really a function to maintain a specific speed once it has been reached, whether from a slower speed or a faster speed through normal braking. If going downhill I can override it by pedalling slightly but I can't re-engage it unless I brake back down to 16mph. I like it, I can go down my local hill at 26-28 mph the same as an unassisted bike or I can choose to cruise at 15 mph and save my rims and put a little bit of power back in the battery.