Yose Power 250w. motor with KT upgrade - first impressions and a question

Cadence

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 23, 2023
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About 20 months ago I fitted one of my bikes with a Yose Power 250w. rear cassette hub kit. Not satisfied with the rather crude operation from the YJT 15A controller, I fitted a Lishui 18A controller that Yose supply with their 350w kits, which was a big improvement. However, I have been reading saneagle and Nealh extolling the virtues of KT "torque simulation" (or current control) for some time, and with one eye on going up to 48v at some point, I just had to give it a try. I've bought and fitted a KT 20A controller (PSWPower) and a KT-LCD3 display and 4-in 1 cable (TopBikeKit).
I've spent some time learning all the settings - and here I have to thank Slightlypedantic (of this parish) for doing the donkey work in determining the correct parameters for the Yose AKM95RX motor. It is a low geared, high torque model and his calculation of P1=163 was near enough spot-on when I compared speed to a GPS computer. With the controller set to 17A (same as I had set the Lishui) I did a 6 mile test ride this morning.
First impressions? It's bloody awesome! The motor runs even more smoothly and quietly than before and I was able to use mostly PAS 1 (previously near useless) and PAS 2.
Not having these cutting off at a set speed makes it all feel more "natural". I could almost kid myself that I was doing all the work and there wasn't a motor there at all.
There's a long steep-ish hill locally and I decided to see what PAS 5 would do. I'd set the speed limit to 18mph beforehand , and hit the foot of the climb at 10mph. Whacking it into PAS 5, the bike accelerated rapidly to the speed limit with hardly any effort from me and held it to the top. Watts were around 600 and the motor and controller were stone cold. With this level of performance I'm starting to think that 48v won't be necessary - but might still be tempted.
There is one annoying feature that I've not got to the bottom of yet. The "walk assist" is far too fierce. The torque is such that it almost does a "wheelie" on starting, and I have to run to keep up - or pull back hard on the bars to stop it running away. I did wonder if this is down to the motor, but walk assist was fine with the Lishui controller. Conversely, the throttle when set at 6km/h max is very weak and doesn't give the "nudge" that I was used to. I tried changing the undocumented C15 which seems to change the 6km/h limit ( range 4-6) and although it does change the speed, the torque is just as high on any of the settings. I'd welcome anyone's thoughts on this as other wise it's so good I'm thinking of changing the controllers on my other two bikes (Yose 350w) as well when funds permit. In retrospect, I wonder if the walk assist torque is dependant on the PAS level that's selected at the time? I'll give that a try next.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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d8veh and I keep beating the same drum , when it comes to generic controllers a KT set up for it's money ( £70 - £100) simply can't be bettered.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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No turning back now Cadence .
 

Cadence

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 23, 2023
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No turning back now Cadence .
Absolutely! This is on my 700c wheeled hybrid that has v-brakes. It's a nice enough bike that I got at a good price as bankrupt stock. It had taken second place, but has now moved up to first again. It has a a rear dropout for disc brakes but the forks don't. So I've been scouring ebay and elsewhere for a replacement disc fork. The problem is I would also need a new front wheel and then, if I do the sensible thing and buy hydraulic rather than cable disc brakes I'll need to replace the combined brake lever/shifters as well. It would probably be cheaper to buy a used bike with hydraulic disc brakes already fitted as standard. I can't see how I can justify yet another bike to the Domestic Authorities though!
I really wish I had found this excellent forum before I got the DIY pedelec bug, although to be fair I had bought the hybrid a year before and happily used it "analogue" until my body started to object! :D
 
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thelarkbox

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 23, 2023
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oxon
Did you take a punt on the 'in battery sled/base' controller version or go silver box? and if 'in-sled' is it dual voltage??
 

Cadence

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 23, 2023
261
201
Did you take a punt on the 'in battery sled/base' controller version or go silver box? and if 'in-sled' is it dual voltage??
I didn't get the integrated controller for the Hailong H1 battery slider because it's only 15A, and Topbike kit don't actually say that it's a KT controller in their listing or if it's dual voltage.
I'd also already fitted the separate Yose 18A controller in a black electronics enclosure attached to the rear rack.
The 20A controller from PSW has a slotted flange on it(which wasn't clear from the web photos) so wouldn't fit the enclosure box, but I've drilled a couple of holes in the rack top plate and bolted it between the rack supports using the flange, steadied with a cable tie. The cables run down the rack legs using spiral wrap. As ever, it is "work in progress". ;)
KT fitment 2.jpg
 
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saneagle

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Oct 10, 2010
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I didn't get the integrated controller for the Hailong H1 battery slider because it's only 15A, and Topbike kit don't actually say that it's a KT controller in their listing or if it's dual voltage.
I'd also already fitted the separate Yose 18A controller in a black electronics enclosure attached to the rear rack.
The 20A controller from PSW has a slotted flange on it(which wasn't clear from the web photos) so wouldn't fit the enclosure box, but I've drilled a couple of holes in the rack top plate and bolted it between the rack supports using the flange, steadied with a cable tie. The cables run down the rack legs using spiral wrap. As ever, it is "work in progress". ;)
View attachment 60323
The easiest way to deal with a separate controller is to put it in an under the seat toolbag. Mine's sat there hapily for ten years.
60328
 

Cadence

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 23, 2023
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In my case the space is taken up already by a small saddle bag containing a spare innertube, tools etc. Also, as I am a bit shorter in the leg than average the space between the rack, mudguard and saddle with 700c wheels is rather small.
IMG_20240919_133140004.jpg

In the first installation I had the battery mounted on a piece of painted marine plywood fixed to the rear rack:-
WP_20230519_09_50_19_Pro_LI.jpg

That will be going back on when I've completed all the "shake down" testing and concealed the cables better. Now that I have two batteries the bracket on the rack top will just be a "dumb" holder for the second battery. The objective is to create a long range tourer so I can explore a bit further afield without any range anxiety.
 
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harrys

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 1, 2016
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Thanks for a well written review. Mirrors my experiences with KT, except I never use walk assist.

I've tossed aside a few "speed" controllers to go with KT. The current control feel is so much better,

I no longer use exposed controller boxes. If they get wet, water can seep in thru the wires if they are positioned to allow that. This may not be so with the models that use cables. Lost a few KT's to water ingress, Now I put them in controller boxes where who knows, they may overheat, but it looks more finished.
 

Cadence

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 23, 2023
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Yes, I'd prefer an enclosed box - see the first pic above which housed the previous Lishui controller. Unfortunately the new KT was just too big to fit in it and the next size up in enclosures that I could find was far too big to fit where I wanted. I've got another bike with a Lishui controller in an enclosure, although that is now on borrowed time until I can buy a KT. In both cases I drilled a series of holes in the bottom to allow cooling and let out any moisure that might get in.
As it is, the cable entries into the aluminium box are under the rack plate so I doubt that water will get in there. It is also to some extent sheltered by the saddle. Having said all that, I am unashamedly a fair weather cyclist anyway!
 

Cadence

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 23, 2023
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201
Just a small update if anyone is interested. I fitted the KT controller and LCD3 display using a 4-in-1 cable from TBK. In an idle moment, and feeling a bit brave, I decided to see if the Yose Power 4-in-1 cable that I already had would have the same wiring sequence, so I temporarily swapped it over. I'm pleased to say that everything worked perfectly. The Yose cable has yellow male 3-pin connectors for the brake cutouts. I had a spare pair of Yose brake levers to try and they also worked. The TBK cable has red female 2-pin brake connectors and I'm using a 2-pin magnet switch on the rear brake with that. The Yose Power 12 magnet PAS sensor and throttle also worked with both cables.
This means that I won't need to buy another 4-in1 cable when I change to a KT controller and display on my other bike. I don't know if the same would apply if someone wanted to use the Yose Power 5-in1 cable for a front light, but I don't see why not.
I've also bought one of these:-
The KT controller has a Julet 3 pin-connector for a rear light. After cutting off the connector to identify the wiring with a multi-meter I've been able to connect the four wires of the light using a common "ground" and now have a rear light that comes on with the display backlight and a brake light that works with a brake cut-out, whether the rear light is on or not.
Simple stuff to many I'm sure, but great fun for me to discover!