Steb

you seem to live in a very small corner that's all about personal attack and trolling. in my experience that is not representative of the UK, which is really why I am here. You are also getting more inappropriate and personal than I think is healthy. I will ignore you until you've regained some composure, perhaps you'll be more able to then have an adult, informed conversation about brexit.

nah..I'm not feeding trolls today ;>)

well, evidently with bipeds like you, I have a mission here to enlighten..

but you do insist on making personal attacks. trolling is probably more accurate. that is rather boring. call me an optimist, but I had hoped for something a bit more intellectually challenging, even from a brexit baboon..

ermmm...have you had your medication?

you make many completely unfounded assumptions. You don't have any idea who the couple were. Your caricature of Mansfield is unfair. On the plus side, your deductive process provides insight into how brexit happened.

I can, and do know it. I've lived in the uk twenty years, and started with very little. I have had children here, and know more than my fair share about state schools. Using the relatively privileged background to account for brexit voters' unbelievable stupidity is at best an act of denial, at worst subterfuge.

I'm afraid they're not the noble savages you would like to believe. Many supported farage, ukip, are more than just a little racist, xenophobic. By choice, the UK is for now still a place of opportunity, where education and background are very poor excuses indeed for ruining ones own and others lives via making stupid choices

There is a simple solution that, dare I say it, doesn't involve any of the brexit infused xenophobic fantasies you seem to be nurturing. Remain part of the EU,allow free movement,in a union that prevents exploitation, racism. But of course that would involve giving up all those imperial fantasies about being special

"generous and welcoming"? more "greedy and self obsessed". we drain deprived communities around the world of health care professionals (by luring them with money developing countries cannot offer)so we don't have to pay to train our own (and are happy to let their dependents drown in the med).

not really. your attempt to not respond to what I wrote, deflect from the argument has more in common with butterfly collecting.

Well, most brexiters I speak to are happy to have nurses from the third world. Very happy to deprive already severely deprived communities of the health care they have. That's neither ethical, nor very enlightened (perhaps it has something to do with a history of being a parasitic empire).

I was in the same position and would triple check that range, a 40 kwh Zoe does at most 120 miles in winter and, to avoid developing generalised anxiety disorder, one has to leave 20% or so for emergencies. Summer will of course be further, but I'd end up doing 140 miles on eco if I had to do it in a Zoe, which, really, wouldn't be fun. The economics of owning an ev is funny, if you live in London near a tesla fast charger and buy, say, a three year old s, it's free to use (and really a quick 30min coffee to charge and can be had for about twice the price of a battery owned zoe

they are bit part players in a pretty impressive production that's about much more than trade - free movement of people, skill, resources (allowing profitable joint ventures like airbus). there's much more at stake than short term pain, profit

that would have been a knockout on the side of the bus ("brexit is - like quantum tunnelling - about crossing a barrier you shouldn't normally be able to cross").

The kind of person who blames their misfortune on eu immigration or tries to convince others to do so are a very very long way away from what Americans call ownership,doing anything themselves to improve their livelihood.

I was referring to this raid by brown on pensions: https://www.ftadviser.com/2014/05/07/opinion/tony-hazell/savers-could-have-lost-bn-in-brown-s-pensions-raid-WTQAjLW5DSRp9HUxwNZN7K/article.html as soon as that happened every second fifty something with a lump sum bought a few buy to let properties instead of investing in a pension, skyrocketing previously affordable property prices and tying up more capital in bricks instead of productive enterprise. I think many other nations may have better pensions because they have more productive economies. unfortunately productivity is all about an intelligent, trained, disciplined workforce and the clever use of technology (and I cannot see the majority of the electorate who voted brexit ever fitting that mould)

its tempting to think were in this hole because of the bankers being baled out in 08. but off course that equity bubble was about overinflated property prices propping up not only the overindulgent lifestyle of the baby boomers, but also taxation (sweet Gordon brown's pensions tax grab was funded by the public piling into property as an alternative to pensions, which have become unsustainable as much because of that as the fact that were living longer). so there's a disconnect between the life the great british public want to live and the money available to pay for it. which is I think where brexit came from (the "disenfranchised by globalisation" being really the work and training shy who would like to have a council flat and benefits and watch daytime telly and complain about all those immigrants who take away the work they imagine would pay rather lots of money for doing very little, which does not exist

in principle I agree (and would love to see the xenophobic self-serving benefit cheating shits getting up at 4am to push hospital trolleys, sweep streets and clean sewers, etc). in practice, much as I like him, I fear it will be much easier for them to vote for corbyn's equally populist fantasies once they begin to feel some pain and try to reverse brexit

yes, soldiering iron is good for shrivelling for removing without fumes

well I sincerely hope Nige manages to set it up, UKIP does us all a very great service with its public parade of odd racists and ex glamour models and we could do with more

but then there are multinationals "lobbying" MP's for those, whereas there aren't many kickbacks for MP's or their backers in nursing jobs (if anything I expect agency staff result in more swill, collateral payment for the pigs in Westminster and corporate uk)

and that, ladies and gentlemen, is how we arrived at a brexit vote (in the electorates' minds it had the same gravitas as voting Nadine dories out of the jungle). so is there a way to turn this into a learning experience as opposed to massive, traumatic aversive conditioning?

and that's before the good news of KPMG auditors giving the company the all clear six months ago (as valued at £2 billion) and so massively screwing pension funds and investors. corporate life in UK is almost as ethical as the politics.

that's the spirit! insisting on being right (and that everyone's full of shite and incapable of change) is key to a good brexit debate. contempt is optional (but really helps, I'm not waiting for Weetabix, I'm tapping away one handed from a work urinal)