Taff

Maximum Assistance I understand that the Neo Cross has 300%; the KTM eRace 650 has 400% does anyone know the max assist on the Storck?

Hi Dave, I thought it was a brilliant bike. See my comments on the Manifold Roadshow post.

Sorry about the constant requests for help but I'm afraid my knowledge is very limited. What does that mean please? DD = Direct drive? Definitely not understanding this as I came down hill at Manifold at 39mph.

I'm pretty sure you shipped a bike to Anglesey recently - so that stands you in good stead. Just looking at a comparison between eTour; eRace and eStyle. The eTour/eStyle look very similar to me. I've tried the eRace 650 at Manifold as you know; and I'm also keen on the Neo Cross. Any views on these 4 bikes? My main problem buying from the other end of the earth (Norfolk) would be; what if anything goes wrong? I am useless mechanically. TAFF

I think this is quite possible. OK but 3 of them were KTM so I kinda figure you you might expect similar programming. In any event, it has focussed me on hub drive and I'm happy to go with that.

Where is this on your website?

If you were buying right now would you choose a Neo Cross or a KTM eRace?

d8veh has tons and tons more experience than me but I'm sure in my mind now that I don't want any delays in power coming in so it's torque for me.

I'm afraid you need the medical forum. Baaaa.

I think it'll most likely be hub drive for me. Ha ha - gotcha.

Cool. I can accept this but I'm certain I would have dropped the gears - it's the obvious thing to do. I'm not an inexperienced rider in as much as I am often in the granny gear on my current MTB (which has almost identical cassette and chainring sizes) whilst climbing any hills around me. For example a short rise near me is 14% and I can struggle up that. I never felt the 'bite' as I did with the other 3 bikes. Strange one this.

So do you think it's a 'technique' type thing? Did you think it was a 'torque/sped sensor' bike? Just done the maths on that one and actually both hills are very, similar. Second hill is 7% average but if you take out the continuous ascent and calculate that it's 10.7%. I know what you mean:)

No - that's a different bike. This one was Deore XT 9.

NO. I'm saying that they didn't go up the hill for ME. Maybe there is a technique to use I don't know but both came to a halt. The other 2 bikes and a Neo Extreme had no problem. The only way you'll know is to test ride one.

That might explain the Macina Bold Jim but not the other one as well. Shame really as I was really looking forward to comparing these bikes. Still the KTM eRace 650 made up for it. Which bike Jim the Bold or the bike the ladies had? Perhaps Kudos Dave can confirm what sensor was on these bikes.

According to the Kudos guys they were speed sensors... certainly I didn't feel any 'torque sensing' going on! Power was on OK and I put it to max so as to be a fair test between all 4 bikes. I agree - which is why I didn't fault the bikes but my style of riding. They didn't work for me. Could well be that actually - perhaps the KTM eRace 650 didn't have the cut off as low as that didn't cut out at all. Ummm - quite interesting.

Regarding Torque Sensor Chris - have a look at my posting (today) in this forum post. Kudos-KTM Roadshow,Manifold Trail,Derbyshire,April 13,12.00-17.00 Taff

Yesterday at Manifold I tested 4 bikes - links at the bottom. 1 KTM eRace 650 (Torque Sensor) Panasonic Rear Hub Drive 2 KUDOS Arriba (Torque Sensor) 8Fun Rear Hub Drive 3 KTM Macina Race 29 (Speed Sensor) 4 KTM Macina Bold 26 (Speed Sensor) Assumptions/Facts I wanted to test the bikes under the conditions under which I might use them i.e. knackered. Thus I did a 7 mile hike first including 700m of ascent. On the bike I carried 2 full water bottles with me. I weigh about 14.5 stone. On each ride I approached the hill with no assist on. The route was 2.61 miles from the Tea Rooms up to Wetton and back with a 20 second ish stop at the top. The hill is about 10-11% no more through the majority of the climb; the average through the climb is about 7.5%. Comments: 1 KTM eRace 650 (Torque Sensor) Panasonic Rear Hub Drive Terrific bike, torque sensor was magnificent and gave a very smooth ride. Beautiful gear changes and lovely smooth rolling along without assist. With assist coped with the hill easily and an enjoyable climb. Very enjoyable descent max speed 39.44mph w/out pushing brakes were excellent. Ride Link: Cyclemeter - Cycle - Apr 13, 2013, 11:59 AM Comments: 2 KUDOS Arriba (Torque Sensor) 8Fun Rear Hub Drive Good bike, torque sensor was solid but a bit lively when setting off. Gave a smooth ride but it seemed to me that the motor kept cutting out for a micro-second every now and then. Good gear changes and smooth rolling along without assist. With assist coped with the hill easily and an enjoyable climb apart from the glitches mentioned earlier. Very enjoyable descent max speed 33.58mph w/out pushing brakes were good but I was wary of them - hence a slower descent. Ride Link: Cyclemeter - Cycle - Apr 13, 2013, 12:20 PM (Note the drop in speed at around 1.35 miles. Comments: 3 KTM Macina Race 29 (Speed Sensor) 4 KTM Macina Bold 26 (Speed Sensor) Both of these bikes had a centremotor and both road superbly along the flat with/without assist but I couldn't cope with the hill at all; coming to a standstill both times. SUMMARY 1 What I have learned is that a Torque Sensor is perfect for my 'thrashing around the gears' type riding and that a Speed Sensor is no good for me. That's not a criticism of the 2 bikes above in anyway at all; more a case of what suits me. 2 It seems to me there is a premium to pay for overall quality esp. components and ride - what a punter has to decide is can they afford it; or do they want to afford it. I would be happy with either of the first 2 bikes but I would definitely pay the premium for the KTM eRace. 3 It is essential to test ride bikes - I could hear people stating their preferences after riding and they didn't seem to be thinking like me; so it goes to show it's personal preference. 4 Now I need to look at other bikes with Torque Sensors but at this moment in time my choice is down to 3: BH Emotion Neo Cross Storck Raddar KTM eRace 650 Which is where I think I started out... All of these are Torque Sensor and all are rear hub drive. If anyone can tell me the relative assist levels of these 3 bikes (on maximum settings) I'd be grateful. Hope this is of help to anyone and if you've any questions please post them. TAFF PS - You can use this link and the little orange man to 'virtual cycle' through the route. https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=safari&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&gl=uk&daddr=Butterton,+Staffordshire&saddr=Wetton,+Staffordshire&panel=1&f=d&fb=1&dirflg=d&geocode=KbtXKrq_PHpIMS6n2lTESErK%3BKSXdwMJ6PHpIMZuS-VlwkX5e BIKE LINKS 1 eRace P650 2 .: Kudos Cycles - e-bikes with style :. 3 Macina Race 29/26 4 Macina Bold 26"

Whilst I look at the actual bike climb at Manifold, if anyone wants to have an idea what this area looks like, feel free to look at my photos online at: Panoramio - Photos by Taff Wrexham > best If you want to look at any photos specifically, use the tags button. Taff PS if anyone wants a GPX file of this walk let me know.

I echo JimB's thanks but not his choices Also - I had some butties in the car. Also a personal thanks to GaRRy for letting me see and ride his bikes - cheers mate. I did a 7 mile hike over the hills before and went up the hill (on the bike) 4.5 times. When I get some time I'll post my thoughts. Taff

I'm 5'6" a Hobbit will be too big for me. I'd love to see the Cross and get some feedback from you on how it tackled the hill up to Wetton. I'm planning to get there early and go for a hike first.

They look pretty good. Do for me! Just need the right bike now. Here's hoping tomorrow with Kudos Dave and others will help. Cheers

When I do get my bike, which is very soon I hope, I would like to make it a puncture free life. Being clumsy it takes me ages and ages to change inner tubes. Can anyone recommend tyres that offer high puncture resistance? Taff

Confucius always looked at extremes. I prefer the thoughts of Chairman Taff: Medium fitness; medium fatness; on light e-bike = big bucks for big rides and big grins.

Thanks for info. 1 ok 2 So confused these days that I don't know if I knew the Storck had regen. So the Storck is using less wattage - much lighter bike of course.