Here is a question for other members. Is the ignition switch always connected to the controller, or is it , in some cases, just wired into the positive battery lead? If the latter is the case, it would make it easier to sus out this controller.

 

There will usually be a main isolating switch between the battery and controller, or sometimes in the battery itself. However some bikes will also have an on/off switch on the handlebar and this usually just switches the low voltage supply in the controller. This doesn’t require much current and enables you to turn the controller on/off with a much smaller switch and cable.

Edited June 4, 201213 yr by jhruk

However some bikes will also have an on/off switch on the handlebar and this usually just switches the low voltage supply in the controller. This doesn’t require much current and enables you to turn the controller on/off with a much smaller switch and cable.

 

I use that function on most of my conversions now.

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7079/7334955938_715cebd329_b.jpg

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited June 5, 201213 yr by jerrysimon

Thinking ahead to mounting the wheel on a frame, I measured the necessary dropout width and was surprised to find out that it is a rather large 155mm. Assuming I have measured it correctly (smallest freewheel sprocket to securing nut on opposite end of axle) I am going to have to stretch standard frame dropouts (135mm) by about 20mm. Having looked into the various methods of doing this (threaded rod and nuts, inverted trigger cramp, foot and hand with brute force etc...) is there a general consensus on the best way to do it? Is it just a matter of trial-and-error? I haven't chosen the exact frame yet, so don't know the material I will be dealing with. Worst case scenario - Is 20mm too much to spread the dropouts of an aluminium frame?

Is 20mm too much to spread the dropouts of an aluminium frame?

 

It's impossible to be certain for every frame type, but I've found this is acceptable on a 26" wheel frame. Here's an example of me changing a tube on an alloy Giant Lafree frame using hand and foot to expand it temporarily by about 25 mm:

 

http://www.flecc.co.uk/m/footmethodtubechange.jpg

 

And below is an example of a 20" wheel alloy frame permanently expanded by about 30 mm where it was necessary to separate the frame welds and re-weld afterwards, plus increasing the tube curves to return the dropout plates to parallel:

 

http://www.flecc.co.uk/t/images/curvature.jpg

Edited June 6, 201213 yr by flecc

plus increasing the tube curves to return the dropout plates to parallel:

 

As stated this becomes a problem the wider you spread the forks.

 

PS Flecc I love the foot on the hub to steady the wheel as the fork arm is yanked up lol

 

Regards

 

Jerry

PS Flecc I love the foot on the hub to steady the wheel as the fork arm is yanked up lol

 

Regards

 

Jerry

 

I rarely bother to take out a back wheel for a tube or tyre change, indeed I fitted the very thick Marathon Plus tyre on that bike without taking out the back wheel, using that foot method. This is a legacy of my early trade days when a number of bikes had full chaincases, often oilbath types, and these were a nightmare for getting out back wheels. In those days bike frame expanders were a normal cycle trade tool sold by factors such as Brown Brothers Ltd* and we only took out back wheels on single speed bikes normally.

 

* Only motor factors now, such has been the takeover of the car.

Hi all.

 

I should be taking receipt of the bike tomorrow (Raleigh Avalanche - don't laugh though, this is the ghEttoBIKE ), but in the meantime I've carried out a few tests on the controller with 24v.

 

A reminder of the controller leads:

 

[ATTACH]3728.vB[/ATTACH]

 

First test - Ground continuity. All black wires have been confirmed as ground along with the yellow wires of 5 & 6 (suspected brake cutouts).

 

Second test - Pin Voltages. The red wire on plug 2 and the yellow wire on plug 3 both show 24v. The white wires on 5 & 6 both show 0.06v. All others show nothing.

 

Does this help anybody's theory? I think I'm in agreement that 5 & 6 are brake cutouts due to the low voltage shown. Seeing that there are no 4-5v pins yet, should I now try shorting the brake cutouts?

 

Obvious note: As ever, the fuse proved worthwhile as I have already blown one whilst probing with my multimeter (although I played it extra safe with a 5A one). Hopefully I haven't busted the controller. Values are still reading as above.

 

I think it might be a whole lot easier if I just replace the controller, although I'd rather not have to wait for shipping from the Far-East.....

Edited June 8, 201213 yr by danielrlee

I've just read another post on here that suggests that brake cutouts are usually normaly-closed switches:

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/11833-burisch-offroad-electric-bike-new-649-ebay-2.html#post142684

 

With this in mind, I tried bridging the brake cutouts on my controller and doing the pin test again, but no change I'm afraid.

 

 

EDIT: I just re-read the posted link and I think I understood it incorrectly..... Either way, re-testing while closed made no difference.

Edited June 8, 201213 yr by danielrlee

Ok …Obviously not powered yet. It looks to me as though it has a handlebar control with on/off switch connected to 2 or 3. The problem now is will it work without this control and, if so, which is the return wire.

 

I quite agree that it would be a lot easier to get a new one with known connections. However, if you want to proceed trying with this one perhaps you could remove the circuit board from the case and post some photos. They might give us some more clues.

Got the bike yesterday and spent hours cleaning, lubing and adjusting absoloutely everything I could think of. I took it for a ride through a few miles of chalenging terrain (for me at least) through Epping Forest this morning and what a blast! I havent rode for about 13 years and the first thing I noticed is how unfit I actually am

 

The second thing I noticed is how tight everything feels on the bike. Considering the state it was in when I collected it (stored outside for the last year), it rides well following my tinkering. It's lighter than I thought it would be and feels pretty solid. It was quite muddy out and in hindsight I should have taken a few photos to post before riding it. I'll do so after cleaning it in a bit.

 

Things aren't going so rosy regarding the controller though. I've decided to give up with it and buy a new one, along with throttle and peddle sensor from the same supplier to ensure no compatibility problems. I have eyed up the following on ebay from a UK seller. Any thoughts on these components? As far as I can see I shouldn't experience any issues for use with my motor.

 

ELECTRIC BIKE CONTROLLER 250W 24V 15A- SENSORLESS & HALL SENSOR COMPATIBLE | eBay

 

ELECTRIC BIKE E BIKE HALL THROTTLE 24V 36V COMPATIBLE | eBay

 

ELECTRIC BIKE PEDAL ASSIST SENSOR (PAS) FOR 24V OR 36 V SYSTEMS | eBay

I took the plunge and ordered the items listed in the previous post. They should be here towards the end of the week. Now I'm really excited about the possibility of having my electric bike up and running next weekend

Those parts look fine to me – and not overpriced.

 

Look forward to hearing how it works.

I took a trip to the post office this morning to collect some goodies; a new controller, throttle and PAS sensor:

 

[ATTACH]3752.vB[/ATTACH]

 

Work never went as slowly as I couldn't wait to get home and make some serious headway on the ghEttoBIKE

 

I removed the old wheel and moved the 5 speed freewheel onto the hub motor wheel (might upgrade the gearing and shifter at a later date). I was surprised at how easy it was to spread the dropouts with some good ol' fashioned brute force. Using my foot for leverage, it didn't take much effort to pull them apart the required amount. The new wheel slotted in nicely and was flush with the frame with a few blows with a rubber mallet. Finally i tightened the axle nuts (BTW, can anyone tell me how much torque should be applied?)

 

Next I hooked up the controller to the motor and wired up the throttle. I chose a 10 amp fuse for the battery, crossed my fingers and plugged it in to the controller.

 

[ATTACH]3753.vB[/ATTACH]

 

No smoke or funny smells - always a good start. Picking up the throttle, I prayed, twisted it........ and got some movement, but it's clearly not what it should be. The motor clicks several times, then stops. During this clicking, the wheel may rotate randomly as each click occurs. Is this a phase issue?

 

When I repaired the motor last week, I couldn't find the correct coloured wire, so used a thick 3 core mains cable. I'm pretty sure that I haven't got the wires muddled up in reference to their new colours, but I guess I could have. I want to just swap them over at the controller to try an alternative phasing, but obviously don't want to damage anything if it's already wired in correctly. Is it okay to do this?

Edited June 13, 201213 yr by danielrlee

Finally i tightened the axle nuts (BTW, can anyone tell me how much torque should be applied?)

 

A grunt. Don't take it as far as a fart.

A grunt. Don't take it as far as a fart.

 

Haha! I literally lol'd. As I said, "no smoke or funny smells".

 

Is that a polite way of telling me to google it?

Edited June 13, 201213 yr by danielrlee

1hr Electric Bike Hub Motor Conversion | ELECTRICBIKE.COM

Pic 5 recommends 50ft/lbs - personally, I just go by feel and that seems about right. Bear in mind the machining off of the sides of the axles has reduced the thread bearing area substantially.

1hr Electric Bike Hub Motor Conversion | ELECTRICBIKE.COM

Pic 5 recommends 50ft/lbs - personally, I just go by feel and that seems about right. Bear in mind the machining off of the sides of the axles has reduced the thread bearing area substantially.

 

Thank you Scimitar, but damn, I've just realised that I don't have a socket deep enough for my torque wrench. It'll have to be by feel with a regular spanner for now.

Be a bit cautious, I've just noticed others mention 30ft/lbs. I'd treat that as a minimun and shoot for 40.

On the advice of the controller supplier who suggested that the battery setup (2x 7ah @ 12v in series) might not be able to deliver the required current, I tried a 2 series / 2 parallel arrangement, but am still having the same problem.

 

While the motor is operating for the couple of seconds it will, the batteries sag only a little to 25v, so I don't think that these are the issue.

 

The label on the controller does list a worryingly low current limit of 10A, which may turn out to be a problem, but surely the motor shouldn't draw that much at no load? Since the 10A fuse is still intact, I am assuming that the motor isn't trying to draw more power than the controller can handle.

 

This is driving me nuts!

 

No smoke or funny smells - always a good start. Picking up the throttle, I prayed, twisted it........ and got some movement, but it's clearly not what it should be. The motor clicks several times, then stops. During this clicking, the wheel may rotate randomly as each click occurs. Is this a phase issue?

 

When I repaired the motor last week, I couldn't find the correct coloured wire, so used a thick 3 core mains cable. I'm pretty sure that I haven't got the wires muddled up in reference to their new colours, but I guess I could have. I want to just swap them over at the controller to try an alternative phasing, but obviously don't want to damage anything if it's already wired in correctly. Is it okay to do this?

 

There’s no standard colour coding standard for these - swapping two of the phase wires to see if it runs more smoothly will do no harm.

 

I notice the controller also has a pair of ‘automatic study wires’ I’ve not come across these before but presumably this enables the controller to remember the correct sequence for starting the motor in the right direction.

 

This ES thread has a little about them. I’d try following those instructions, connecting the two wires and running the motor until it has ‘learnt’. Not clear whether you have to turn the wheel manually while it learns, or if you run it until it does. If nobody here knows any more I’d just try it and see.

 

The batteries shouldn’t be a problem until the motor is under load.

There’s no standard colour coding standard for these - swapping two of the phase wires to see if it runs more smoothly will do no harm.

 

I notice the controller also has a pair of ‘automatic study wires’ I’ve not come across these before but presumably this enables the controller to remember the correct sequence for starting the motor in the right direction.

 

This ES thread has a little about them. I’d try following those instructions, connecting the two wires and running the motor until it has ‘learnt’. Not clear whether you have to turn the wheel manually while it learns, or if you run it until it does. If nobody here knows any more I’d just try it and see.

 

The batteries shouldn’t be a problem until the motor is under load.

 

I just tried alternative motor phase combinations, but got next to no movement from the motor. This leads me to believe that the phasing is correct as is.

 

The wiring diagram is generic for all controllers the manufacturer makes and my controller doesn't feature these automatic study wires.

 

Would a video of the problem be of any help to anyone?

I have just had a little back-and-forth email with the supplier and I am now more confused than ever. I am left questioning my whole understanding of electronics! This is how I understood it: Current is drawn from the motor, not pushed from the battery if you will.

 

Assuming the motor draws 250w, the battery needs to be able to supply a current of 10.4 amps to satisfy this (assuming 100% efficiency). This is not the same as amphours or watthours, which is a measure of battery capacity - a 7ah battery drained at 10 amps will last 0.7 hours (about 40 minutes). In theory, I could use a battery of huge capacity and the only limiting factors will be its weight and the maximum instantaneous power that can be drawn from the battery.

 

EDIT: I understand the limitations of SLA and that ideally, they shouldn't be discharged much past 50% to maintain a healthy battery life.

 

Is the above correct? If not, I clearly think I know more than I actually do.

Edited June 14, 201213 yr by danielrlee

Another note I should probably add is that I'm not currently using the propper connectors for either the battery to controller connection or the controller to motor connection - I have simply stuffed bare wires into the connectors. The motor connectors are getting warm (but not hot) in just a few attempts of twisting the throttle. Is it possible that the resistance of these connections is too high and unable to pass the required current?

 

EDIT: I've tested the resistance at the battery connector at the closest accessible points and its just 0.6 ohms, so this isn't a problem. I am however unable to test the motor connectors since the only connection that I could make involves removing the heat tubing I added inside the motor, which I'd rather not have to do. I suspect that warm motor connectors is a red herring anyway.

 

This seemed like quite a simple project when I started, but now I'm left wondering if I've bitten off more than I can chew. Each component I buy (and I've just ordered a pannier rack and rather neat bag) is starting to feel like good money after bad...... I'm not giving up yet though, as I'd imagine this is the last major hurdle I will have to clear.

Edited June 14, 201213 yr by danielrlee

I have just had a little back-and-forth email with the supplier and I am now more confused than ever. I am left questioning my whole understanding of electronics! This is how I understood it: Current is drawn from the motor, not pushed from the battery if you will.

 

Assuming the motor draws 250w, the battery needs to be able to supply a current of 10.4 amps to satisfy this (assuming 100% efficiency). This is not the same as amphours or watthours, which is a measure of battery capacity - a 7ah battery drained at 10 amps will last 0.7 hours (about 40 minutes). In theory, I could use a battery of huge capacity and the only limiting factors will be its weight and the maximum instantaneous power that can be drawn from the battery.

 

EDIT: I understand the limitations of SLA and that ideally, they shouldn't be discharged much past 50% to maintain a healthy battery life.

 

Is the above correct? If not, I clearly think I know more than I actually do.

 

More or less correct. Current is drawn by the motor from the battery via the controller. The motor will try and draw as much current as it needs, not much when unloaded but increasing with load. The amount it can draw will be limited by a current limiter in the controller, to prevent overloading both controller and motor, and by what the battery can supply.

 

You can check the batteries by monitoring the voltage as you turn the throttle. It shouldn’t drop below the low voltage cutout value of the controller, probably around 20v. The current drawn when the motor is unloaded, and running at full speed, should be no more than 1-2 amps.

 

 

Have you tried spinning the wheel before opening the throttle – being sensorless it may need a start.

 

Have you checked the motor windings - the resistance between each pair of phase wires should be very low. Probably less than 1 ohm - you won’t be able to read the value accurately on a cheap multimeter.

More or less correct. Current is drawn by the motor from the battery via the controller. The motor will try and draw as much current as it needs, not much when unloaded but increasing with load. The amount it can draw will be limited by a current limiter in the controller, to prevent overloading both controller and motor, and by what the battery can supply.

 

You can check the batteries by monitoring the voltage as you turn the throttle. It shouldn’t drop below the low voltage cutout value of the controller, probably around 20v. The current drawn when the motor is unloaded, and running at full speed, should be no more than 1-2 amps.

 

 

Have you tried spinning the wheel before opening the throttle – being sensorless it may need a start.

 

Have you checked the motor windings - the resistance between each pair of phase wires should be very low. Probably less than 1 ohm - you won’t be able to read the value accurately on a cheap multimeter.

 

Thanks for confirming that I'm not a complete idiot

 

I have tried spinning the wheel prior to opening the throttle, but it makes no difference.

 

I opend up the hub motor a little earlier to take a look at the windings, but I can't figure out where one winding ends and the next begins. This photo is from before I repaired the motor wiring, but shows the windings anyway:

 

[ATTACH]3757.vB[/ATTACH]

 

I am far from an electronics expert and have never tested motor windings before. I googled how to do so earlier, but couldn't make sense of my own motor.