Ive heard so many different things about the Torq Battery but its hard to know what is what.

Can someone (owns a Torq) answer me the following questions.

 

1. Which battery is better L-ion or Nimh ?

2. How much mileage are you getting ?

3. How long have these batteries lasted its owners ?

4. Have you problems obtaining replacement batteries from 50cycles ?

5. Would you still buy another Torq, now ?

Torq battery

 

Hi burncycle.

 

I have owened a torq for 1 year now I have both types of battery I regularly cover 30mls in restricted mode there is very little difference between the two batterys the NIMH not cutting out so much on very steep hills but the L-iom

has been very satisfactory,both batterys are as good as the day I purchased them (or maybe I am getting fitter).

 

Untill I purchased my Torq I had not rode a bike for 40years and was not very fit ,I have done 2700mls in the year I have owened the bike.

 

Yes I would defiantly buy another Torq.

 

I have read a lot of difference opinions about these batterys but I can only talk about my own personal experience.

 

I hope this maybe of some help to you JOHN

Hi,

 

1) I have only had the Lion so am not in a position to comment

2) Was 30 with good input. Now 3 max

3) 11 months until unreasonable = just over 2000 miles

4) Yes - though as a warranty issue rather than a purchase

5) Yes, if I could be confident of dealer backup, so I would wait until a new distributor is found. Mr Ching of Ezee cycles has been excellent in his support and it is a superb bike.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Django

I have a Torq 1 with NiMh battery and a Sprint originally Li-ion but now NiMh.

 

1) my preference is very much for NiMh given the short battery life experienced by many Li-ion users, including the original on my Sprint.

 

2) Range can vary enormously depending on terrain, rider effort, speed and other factors. Typically I get 30 miles but I have achieved a maximum of 50 miles (very exceptional) and a low of 20 miles. The current Torq Trekking has a larger motor that consumes 25% more power so may give a shorter range if the extra power is used.

 

3) My oldest NiMh battery contains cells over 2 years old and has not significantly deteriorated, ditto for my other two NiMh batteries at 12 and 18 months old.

 

4) Purchasing a replacement battery was easy enough when I last did 12 months ago, I would not count on being able to obtain one from that particular source now or in the future though.

 

5) Yes, if the issue mentioned above and other possible service issues could be resolved. The bike is great.

Edited February 14, 200818 yr by Ian

Just to clarify, it is the same ezee battery Li or NiMH used in all ezee bikes, but there are cases of Li having a shorter life and the stress on them in use on the Torq, particularly when delimited, seems to exacerbate the problem.

 

The new Torq has suspension front forks and a lower geared, higher torque motor, so will ride quite different to the old one and the Li batteries might have a longer life than before due to less stress in the new setup, maybe comparable to the Sprint or Quando (when it can be pedal assisted)? Though because you have hills, you might still be at less risk of capacity loss or cutouts (though Li batteries are now modified to reduce the latter) with NiMH? Flecc?

 

I've only used NiMH, and on a Torq1, so I couldn't compare, but I'd get about the same 30miles or more on flattish roads at ~15mph when restricted. My battery is only 10mths old and no noticeable change in performance, but if I'd wanted a 2nd battery I'd have had difficulty to get one in the last year due to the shortage: hopefully it sounds like there may be a more reliable supply from 50cycles in the pipeline though .

 

Given the pleasure & utility for distance travel I've had from my Torq and the 'value' I got from buying NiMH for delimited use when they were still much cheaper than Li-ion, I'd buy another Torq1: I'd probably do as you have done & test ride a Torq2 & panasonic/kalkhoff to compare! Nice side-by-side comparison - thanks!

 

Stuart.

When new, the Li-ion battery has 10% more range in a given circumstance due to it's larger capacity. The early ones could be very short lived when used in the most trying conditions with lots of hill climbing, those in flatter areas getting much longer lives.

 

Current Li-ion batteries are improved, but as the last improvement was very recent, we've no idea on the life now until further experience is gained. Furthermore, because of the nature of battery development, there will be more retrofittable improvements in future.

 

The early Torq 1 had it's faults and I modified mine extensively, but the redesign in the Torq Trekking has addressed those problems, so I've no doubt it's a fine bike, given the stable it's come from.

.

The Torq seems like the ideal bike for me, though the battery problems seem to be an issue for 50cycles both with comparison (L-ion & Nimh) and supply.

It doesnt instill confidence in me at all.

I think 50cycles should get this deal setup ASAP and get those batteries flowing in to their customers. These sorts of things are the sort of thing that can make or break a company and I feel they are leaving this open.

People remember these things. Up to now I have learnt that an ebike is only as good as its e (electrical availability), or its just another bike.

If they had problems with supply of wheels or anything else, then this wouldnt be an issue, but the battery. Thats like no petrol for cars.

I hope they dont learn the hard way about this mistake.

Im not being critical but this is bad issue. It bad for the current owners and scares off potential buyers.

My money is in the bank 50cycles. I'm waiting for a reason to give it them !

Edited February 14, 200818 yr by burncycle

If you are prepared to take the risk of the first battery falling a bit short of expectations, I believe you can be sure that won't be the case with subsequent ones.

 

If I were considering a Torq now, I would be prepared to take that risk of possible loss of some value on the first battery, and the future prospects wouldn't deter me at all.

.

50cycles have said

 

We have been trying to order all bikes from Ezee with nimh only throughout 2007 but were told he could not supply them due to there being no warranty on them from his supplier.

 

On this basis we have now sourced our own Nimh batteries with a full one year warranty and long lifecycle at a competitive price to Ezee and from a location that would take 2 hours on a train to get to should I need to question faults in person and get a decent result for our customers. This information will be released when I have firm facts and figures.

 

Which sounds like good news for eze bike owners using NiMH batteries .

 

Although as flecc said the Lithium batteries might be improved now & in future too .

 

Stuart.

Edited February 14, 200818 yr by coops

when was this posted coops ?

Edited February 14, 200818 yr by burncycle

question (though off on a tangent)

If your battery did die a death after many years of use, with no batteries available any more of course. Could you just put a normal wheel on the front and ride it old school.

The back of the bike is just a bike and all the electrics are at the front so it should be possible. Thats future proof !

Only very recently burncycle - click on the little > arrow link in the first line of the quote

...

 

& it takes you straight to the quoted post in the thread it occured - 12th Feb 11.40am .

 

Stuart.

Sorry I forgot to tell everyone.

Thankyou for answering my questions.

Its of great help to me !

Yes you could change to a normal wheel without motor but at £1200,it would be a very expensive bike,and would probably ride like a £100 bike,only with less gears.

hey I presently ride a £100 bike with 3 gears !

Its a folder !

question (though off on a tangent)

If your battery did die a death after many years of use, with no batteries available any more of course. Could you just put a normal wheel on the front and ride it old school.

The back of the bike is just a bike and all the electrics are at the front so it should be possible. Thats future proof !

There are other options to consider when the battery fails. Companies exist who will replace the cells in batteries, restoring them to an "as new" condition. This may involve converting Li-ion to NiMh as I done, and the provision of a new charger. Alternatively replacement batteries may be available from continental dealers or even direct from the manufacturer.

Hi burncycle.

 

I have owened a torq for 1 year now I have both types of battery I regularly cover 30mls in restricted mode there is very little difference between the two batterys the NIMH not cutting out so much on very steep hills but the L-iom

has been very satisfactory,both batterys are as good as the day I purchased them (or maybe I am getting fitter).

 

Untill I purchased my Torq I had not rode a bike for 40years and was not very fit ,I have done 2700mls in the year I have owened the bike.

 

Yes I would defiantly buy another Torq.

 

I have read a lot of difference opinions about these batterys but I can only talk about my own personal experience.

 

I hope this maybe of some help to you JOHN

 

 

John

Thanks for posting a positive battery report. I wish we could more easily understand the variable results different users have had.

 

Although unfit when I started with my Torq 12 months ago, I still believe that I contribute sufficiently to achieve the type of consistency that you have experienced, and by the sound of it, I cycle mostly on flatter terrain.

 

Have you any tips on battery maintenance ?

Do you do anything different with the two types of battery ?

 

Would be good to hear from others who have had this level of consistent capacity during 12 months use.

 

Thanks

James

The experience I've had in this forum is that it's the riders in flatter areas who get the best life and performance from Li-ions.

 

Unfortunately the waters are muddied by people thinking the steepest hills in their area are steep, when they are often mere slight slopes to many of us, so the subjective reports are simply not reliable, few acknowledging that they ride in a very easy area.

 

I've had members referring to even a gentle 7% slope as a "very steep hill", though it's only a third of the steepness that many of us climb, and 10% is commonly thought of as steep.

 

The other factor is length of hill with Li-ions, since they tire under sustained heavy discharge. A short hill of 10% might be well within a powerful bike's capability, but a lesser 7% hill going on for two miles can tire the battery cells so much that they drop to safety cut-out point

 

It's the riders who regularly climb hills between 12% and 22%, or hills lasting for miles who give their batteries the roughest time, and accordingly get the shortest life. I have both type of hills and the unenviable record of 3 early Li-ions failing in months, two of them with under 60 charges.

 

However, that wouldn't happen on the Panasonic motor unit battery, since it's power management doesn't permit abuse, rationing the battery output to keep it well within it's capabilities at all times. The only hub motors approaching that level of sophistication are the BionX and Sparta Ion, both direct drive types.

.

Edited February 15, 200818 yr by flecc

Moving to NiMh on Torq1

 

I purchased a Torq in late 2006 with a lithium battery pack. Used it, less frequently than intended, to cycle about 6-7 miles to / from work in Cornwall through 2008 - with a significant hill in both directions. After a lot of inquiries on this site and modifying the front chain wheel - I am presently of the impression that I need to change to a NiMh battery. The degree of cut out that I now get with the Li battery is unacceptable. Currently patiently waiting over 4 months for a NiMh battery from 50cycles - but my patience is getting stretched. Hoping that 50cycles are really going to sort this supply problem out soon. Might ask folk here how one gets through directly to eZee bikes. Given that I will need a new charger, I hope that I am correct - because I could probably buy a new lightweight non-electric push bike with 21 gears on for the price of the battery and charger. Not planning on spending this kind of money every 12 months...Apart from this issue - the bike is superb.....but it's kinda fundamental.....(and yes, before the question comes around again.. I weigh somewhere between 13 and 14 stone - and carry bits and pieces to work in the bike panniers and can - if required pedal a normal push bike to the office if forced to)

Ezee cycles are here

 

Contact details:

 

EZEE KINETICS TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.

Ching Wai Won

Tel: +86 21 58 22 40 40

E-mail.: ezeebike@gmail.com

 

Cheers,

 

Django

 

Currently patiently waiting over 4 months for a NiMh battery from 50cycles - but my patience is getting stretched. Hoping that 50cycles are really going to sort this supply problem out soon. Might ask folk here how one gets through directly to eZee bikes.

 

eZee cannot get the NiMh cells at present they say, only 8.5 Ah with poor current delivery. 50cycles are working towards having their own NiMh and hope to announce something, but probably not in here now.

 

I'm completely confident that before the end of this year there will be much better Li-ion batteries available, and I intend to be using them on my eZee bikes instead of the NiMh I'm using at present since they will be so much better than present NiMh and Li-ion. There are things happening currently in both China and Japan which indicate that will happen, but a little patience is needed since those involved are making absolutely sure that they get it right this time.

 

I'm sorry that doesn't help those who are stuck at the moment, but at least you can be sure your bikes are not so much scrap.

.

Maybe I'll wait a bit

 

Thanks again flecc - very useful - perhaps I'll bide my time and look out for these future developments......(might just wire a reset button up to my handlebars to keep me chugging along....!!)

My Experience

 

I received my Torq w/ lithium battery on Sept 8, 2006. I have since ridden 1300 miles on almost completely flat ground, The W&OD trail in Virginia, USA. My first battery reached 50% capacity (9.2 miles @ 20m.p.h average w/ peddling) within the first 6 months. After a winter break, I tried getting the battery replaced. The second lithium battery failed within the first week (turned out to be battery terminal screws), but then after service from Electric Bikes | Folding Bicycles | Powered motor kits | Scooters (New York), the battery reached 50% within 6 months and was out of warranty. I am now in the process of deciding between the "new and improved" lithium with fewer cut-outs, or the tried and true NiMH. I'm 90% certain that I will buy the NiMH, because research has shown that the LiMn batteries lose ~30% of their capacity every year and that they suffer when used to depletion (as I was doing every day).

 

I love the Torq and would buy it again. The front shocks would have been great, since at 25 mph speeds, the little bumps and hard tires wrack body upper body!

Looks like the Torq is a great bike, let down by the only thing that makes it an ebike, its battery !

Shame !

I received my Torq w/ lithium battery on Sept 8, 2006. I have since ridden 1300 miles on almost completely flat ground, The W&OD trail in Virginia, USA. My first battery reached 50% capacity (9.2 miles @ 20m.p.h average w/ peddling) within the first 6 months. After a winter break, I tried getting the battery replaced. The second lithium battery failed within the first week (turned out to be battery terminal screws), but then after service from Electric Bikes | Folding Bicycles | Powered motor kits | Scooters (New York), the battery reached 50% within 6 months and was out of warranty. I am now in the process of deciding between the "new and improved" lithium with fewer cut-outs, or the tried and true NiMH. I'm 90% certain that I will buy the NiMH, because research has shown that the LiMn batteries lose ~30% of their capacity every year and that they suffer when used to depletion (as I was doing every day).

 

 

The 2006 Li-ion batteries were useless, I went through three, two in six months, and one bought at the end of the year in 10 months. The current Li-ion batteries are better and have had their cut-out point altered, but they are still unlikely to last as long as a good NiMh.

 

However, things haven't been standing still and are still moving on, and the theoretical 30% per annum drop in capacity isn't appearing on the best quality Li-ion batteries that are supplied with the Panasonic motored bike or the BionX motor. Indeed, Panasonic are happy to give a two year warranty on their battery, and some users of the BionX are reporting little loss of capacity at two years.

 

Those two batteries are expensive though, at about £150 per 12 volts @ 10Ah in the UK, while the eZee ones have been about £83 per 12 volt at 10Ah, little over half the price. The moral is obvious.

 

Research and manufacturing is improving matters though, and there will be better performances and life from e-bike Li-ions before too long, and the progress will be continuous. I'm currently a confirmed NiMh user, one of the first to turn back to them from 2006 on, and I have three NiMh batteries for my two bikes, but I'm confident that I will be using only Li-ion before this year is out.

.