Can someone from one the shops or brands that seem happy to sell and explain how to make eBike bikes illegally fast please message me, or ideally post on here so we can all see... how on earth you feel safe doing so.

 

So can I ask directly. Have any of you taken legal advice on your liability should one of your customers be involved in a serious accident whilst using a bike that you've either sold in an illegal state, or advised on how to make it illegal.

 

I'm not interested in debating the use of the bikes, thats done to death, and people are clearly happy to risk things personally. What I'm trying to understand is how retailers or brands can sell these products, and have they actually sort legal advice before doing so.

 

Trading Standards have a different view to Flecc's. They are investigating an e-bike dealer(s). Among the things they are considering is product safety and the dealer in question's liabilities. This is a extract from their latest letter:

 

 

"The regulations that most clearly apply, and that are also enforced by Trading Standards, are The General Product Safety Regulations 2005.

 

These require an item supplied to be a safe product. If considered in isolation it is likely that either product (the e-bike and the dongle) would be safe. It is the effect of the two in combination that is most relevant. Under R.2 of these regs a safe product is defined so as to include consideration of its effect on another product where it is foreseeable that it would be used with them. It also refers to reasonably foreseeable use. It is foreseeable that this would include use on the road...

 

 

On the EU point, Dft tell me that the only reason UK has not yet fully adopted EU regs is lack of parliamentary time. They now say that time has been found and that UK will adopt before the end of this year.

 

 

If any other dealers concerned about the retailer de-restricting e-bikes would like to discuss this in more detail please contact me.

 

 

Rgds, James FitzGerald

How does this affect throttles? And if they are illegal, what becomes of E bikes already purchased with a throttle?

How does this affect throttles? And if they are illegal, what becomes of E bikes already purchased with a throttle?

 

Which one do you have? EU 6kmh version? Speed pedelec 20kmh version? or UK 15mph version?

Trading Standards have a different view to Flecc's.

 

In what way James? I've not addressed the safety issue that Trading Standards are concerned with, only the legal aspects with regards to breaches of EAPC law.

 

These are views on two different issues.

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UK 15mph

In what way James? I've not addressed the safety issue that Trading Standards are concerned with, only the legal aspects with regards to breaches of EAPC law.

 

These are views on two different issues.

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Flecc... you do realise the EAPC law is there primarily for SAFETY reasons?? or do you think its there for another reason?

Not sure... The responsible officer at DfT told me that 15mph throttles are legal in the UK but when I wrote and asked her to confirm this in writing (about 3 times), she didn't respond. Retired? Maternity leave? Ducking? Don't know.

In what way James? I've not addressed the safety issue that Trading Standards are concerned with, only the legal aspects with regards to breaches of EAPC law.

 

These are views on two different issues.

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Quite right Flecc, I was referring to your view that de-restricted e-bikes are legal on private land and Trading Standards thinking that it shouldn't have been sold in the first place. Should I change "view" to "approach"?

Flecc... you do realise the EAPC law is there primarily for SAFETY reasons?? or do you think its there for another reason?

 

 

But once again, not relevant to what I've posted. That has only been about compliance with EAPC law.

 

I've made no comment on the obvious intrinsic safety aspects of that law, it's a different subject to compliance.

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KTM it was my error ...apologies to Flecc. Anyhow the general thrust of all is safe e-bikes for customers and a level playing field dealers.

Quite right Flecc, I was referring to your view that de-restricted e-bikes are legal on private land and Trading Standards thinking that it shouldn't have been sold in the first place. Should I change "view" to "approach"?

 

Thanks for the explanation James, no need to change any wording, it is a good point that another law may be infringed.

 

My position is that it is legal for anyone to sell an e-bike of any specification for use on genuinely private land. If the the view of Trading Standards is the opposite on safety grounds, clearly they have a considerable battle on the hands, one which I doubt they'd pursue into the courts.

 

As they acknowledge, they would need to show that use in the public arena is in fact likely.

 

After all, just look at the far more widespread sale of road illegal mini-motos, powered pavement scooters etc. The serious problems they cause have been discussed in parliament and yet nothing has been done to stop the suppliers of those.

 

It's a matter for personal judgement whether it's realistic to think the invisible issue of the faster e-bikes will bring more action than that well known major nuisance. The difference would seem to be that a shop is involved now, something that hasn't affected the other illegal vehicles which are almost always sold through the web.

 

A personal experience to illustrate my belief. After a first MOT, I immediately found the tyres were at a lethal and skittish over 45 lbs, which would make the car extremely dangerous in wet conditions, as well as being very uncomfortable on poor surfaces. I went back to the MOT garage and compared my gauges with theirs, showing theirs was very faulty, but they point blank refused to acknowleged that.

 

With the serious safety implications for others, I went to Trading Standards and complained in person. An officer there obligingly checked my two gauges against their huge master gauge setup, confirming the accuracy of mine to within a half pound and even more obligingly issuing certificates for both gauges showing their exact performance accuracy at every lb step from 20 to 50 lbs.

 

But they also said they could do nothing about the garage gauge since they had no powers in that respect. When I pushed them hard on the safety aspects of doing nothing, they grudgingly said they'd call in when passing and advise the garage, but I had no faith they really meant that.

 

Obviously a very different attitude regarding safety, though admittedly not a physical product sale, rather a service sale involved. The Trading Standards Department was that of the London Borough of Croydon.

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Did somebody say that they're investigating that there might have been an infringement on the grounds of safety? If so, it's because someone made a complaint, not because they believe it's unsafe. I'll put my money on them finding that there was no infringement when they complete their investigation, which I shouldn't think will take very long.

Just casual interest, how much money would you bet?