Each to their own Maestro, and I support that, there should be the widest possible choice available to customers.

 

Don't mind asbestos either, I've used hard white asbestos sheet extensively in my younger years, sawing it dry and never using masks. In my seventies now, I've no lung problems despite that and nearly forty years of heavy smoking up to a few years ago. I think the most dangerous diseases these days are paranoia and fear.

.

 

Yep I used to lick my mum's ironing board asbestos sheet when I was a kid and it never did me any harm The risk is probably greatly exagerated and I agree about paranoia and fear. There again they keep many people in health and safety jobs.

Gits!!!

 

The problem was that the pads had asbestos in and so they were seized by the authorities, nothing more, it caused serious problems for the Oz importer (who now buys bone fide Wisper bikes as do several other companies who have had experience of these clones).

 

You must excuse me getting a tad annoyed, although being copied is very flattering, I do get a little miffed when we have spent years and buckets of cash getting the bike right and some miserable git comes in a copies it, badly! :o

 

Never mind we have loads in the pipeline, the only answer to the low lifes that don't have a new idea in their heads is to keep in front of them.

 

Just remember if you are tempted, it is much like buying knock off CD's or dodgy car parts, the product is NEVER as good as the original and the profits go to a few chancers who are after making a few bucks rather than the guys who are serious about electric bikes and moving the market and technology forward.

 

I've had my moan, thanks for reading!

 

All the best David

Edited August 16, 200817 yr by Wisper Bikes

Well I bought one and it is excellent. I am commuting 20 miles per day in Scotland including some very steep hills. It is very well put together and the components are of good quality. The motor is powerful and the battery is still showing a green light when I get home from work. I have covered several hundred miles on it and I am a very satisfied customer.

 

I had a chat with chap yesterday and they have no more stock of that particular model, but are developing a new bike with another company and expect to have it in 10 to 12 weeks @ approx £700 ........Developing times for electric bikes, and I hope prices will start to become more reasonable.

 

Can't see how others can get petulant regards design, as a bike is basically a triangle with a wheel at each end and a battery in one of three positions - hardly rocket science lol

 

Plus others have battery's in same positions as these models such as the ezee, which I believe have been around for a while.

A bit simplistic!!

 

Can't see how others can get petulant regards design, as a bike is basically a triangle with a wheel at each end and a battery in one of three positions - hardly rocket science lol

 

Hi Eddieo, I am delighted that your knock off Wisper of is serving you well. I truly would hate to see the public ripped off too. I am delighted that the bike is basicaly good, it should be, I designed it! Just imagine if you had bought real one!

 

If you had spent the 10's of £1000's we have and visited China more than 20 times getting it right perhaps you would feel a little annoyed too!

 

If you really believe that is bike is a triangle with a wheel at each end, there's no real point in taking this discussion further.

 

Best regards David

Edited August 16, 200817 yr by Wisper Bikes

Hi Eddieo, I am delighted that your knock off Wisper of is serving you well. I truly would hate to see the public ripped off too. I am delighted that the bike is basicaly good, it should be, I designed it! Just imagine if you had bought real one!

 

If you had spent the 10's of £1000's we have and visited China more than 20 times getting it right perhaps you would feel a little annoyed too!

 

If you really believe that is bike is a triangle with a wheel at each end, there's no real point in taking this discussion further.

 

Best regards David

 

For a start you need to put your reading glasses on:) it is not me who has the e*ay bike but Timco 541? I actually prefer the wisper but for the price.

 

My opinion for what its worth is: I think their is far to much dealer/manufacturer presence on here, in what is supposed to be a medium for amateur/enthusiast discussion. Not somewhere where manufacturers or dealers can endlessly engineer debate back towards their product at every opportunity......Particularly if they are going to get tired and emotional regards the subject:)

 

I am a member of various other forums and this simply would not be tolerated;)

Many of us like the manufacturers and agents in here eddieo, and they have regularly been extremely helpful to members with advice and spares. We have a clinics section that manufacturers and suppiers can opt to be in, but it's very reassuring to someone who posts a problem to have the supplier come in and help on the spot.

 

There has been the odd excess from time to time, but overall we are very much the beneficiaries of their presence.

.

I echo Fleccs sentiments, I want manufacturers and dealers posting on here, moreoften if possible. Yes they try to guide you to their machines, thankfully there's lots of users to 'set the record straight' too

 

John

Too much manufacturer involvement?

 

Hi Eddieo

 

You may have a point, I do try to limit may comments to a few light hearted quips or advice for anyone having problems with their bikes, although I have posted links to video too. I never answer questions such as "Which electric bike should I buy? However feel your observation carries weight so I am pleased to have the opportunity to justify my position to you and other members who may feel the same.

 

I am an avid reader of the site for three reasons. Firstly, I love electric bikes and I find the site interesting, informative and sometimes very amusing. Secondly, it gives me the opportunity to both find out what real ebike enthusiasts want from their bikes, so I can make improvements to our range. Thirdly, I look to see if any of our customers are experiencing problems and try to offer a solution.

 

If other members feel my presence is intrusive I will stop posting.

 

As always, best regards David

As long as manufacturers and dealers make it clear that that is who they are and declare their interest I don't see their is any problem in them posting.

David

 

No David, You must NOT stop reading and contributing to this forum.

 

The open and sometimes brutally honest interaction between users and suppliers on this forum can only be beneficial to both.

 

The use of electric bikes is extremely varied, not only in the types of terrain, but also the many and diverse climatic conditions in which the machines will be used. It would be impossible for the Wisper team to experience these many different uses of electric bikes first hand, this forum provides that type of feedback required on a daily basis. Without the regular input from users, the Wisper 905 would not have evolved into the thoroughbred we have now

 

There are a number of machines on the market that, although they have been around for many years, still suffer from the same mechanical and electrical design faults we hear about regularly on this forum. These machines are distributed by suppliers who, unlike the Wisper team, simply don't listen to their customers.

 

I do visit other forums regularly, and God forbid this forum should decend to the "bear pit" that some of them have become. There is of course a huge amount of knowledge available on those forums, but I find it tiresome wading through reams of disrespectful and abusive comments to find it.

 

The Pedelecs UK forum is excellent in every way, and the presence of the suppliers can only enhance it still further.

 

Please continue posting David

 

Regards

 

Bob

Edited August 17, 200817 yr by Blew it

Yes well......

 

I have only recently become interested in electric bikes. Have been away on holidays to Italy for a month and when I logged in on my return this week it seems that things are generally moving forward with new bikes on the horizon.....

 

I watched a buying property abroad program this week, it was about Italy. The first shot's was of a elderly chap riding an electric bike across the town square! lol

 

While I kind of understand your comments regards dealers presence on here, I think in the case of this thread you have missed the point, and I believe wispers contributions breach your forums terms and conditions. I have never excepted "only having a laugh" or a smiley as justification for questionable behavior.

 

Back on thread: The E Bikes UK bike may well be a decent product, who knows.... Timco has one and is pleased with it. Maybe their next bike will be of interest to all, lets hope so........

 

While I kind of understand your comments regards dealers presence on here, I think in the case of this thread you have missed the point, and I believe wispers contributions breach your forums terms and conditions. I have never excepted "only having a laugh" or a smiley as justification for questionable behavior.

 

Of course that could also be an argument for changing the terms and conditions, since the majority of members like the commercial presence in here, and the forum exists for member's benefit.

 

Those of us who've posted would not regard Wisper's contributions as questionable at all. They are informative and helpful, rather than directly promotional, and if the contributions generate commercial gain as they clearly do, it's a well deserved gain which I for one do not resent in any way.

.

Of course that could also be an argument for changing the terms and conditions, since the majority of members like the commercial presence in here, and the forum exists for member's benefit.

 

Those of us who've posted would not regard Wisper's contributions as questionable at all. They are informative and helpful, rather than directly promotional, and if the contributions generate commercial gain as they clearly do, it's a well deserved gain which I for one do not resent in any way.

.

 

So you think it OK to use terms like "Gits!" and "low lifes" when discussing other companys product? Also a petulant and sarcastic "well I hope you enjoy your wisper knock of" when I haven't even seen one yet?

 

Don't bother responding. By far to many sycophants on here who have been in the wood's to long and cant see the trees.....

I'm sorry you've come in here looking for an argument Eddie, but as you've found, you are clearly in the wrong place for that. It seems from what you've said that you are happier in some other forums, each to his own as it should be.

 

We exist to look after those with a wide variety of views, each just as valid as yours, and we do it without insulting and sarcastic comments about the other members.

.

So you think it OK to use terms like "Gits!" and "low lifes" when discussing other companys product? Also a petulant and sarcastic "well I hope you enjoy your wisper knock of" when I haven't even seen one yet?

 

Don't bother responding. By far to many sycophants on here who have been in the wood's to long and cant see the trees.....

 

I do think the manufacturers are normally a welcome presence including Wisper. although I do agree with you in regards to this thread where there are some slightly unprofessional comments (in my opinion). Most of my comments earlier on in the thread were because it did get my back up a bit one manufacturer tarnishing another so blatently. People robbing ideas goes on all the time in business and most of the time there's nothing you can do about it especially if the ideas not that original in the first place. If you ask me any mtb with a battery behind the seat is going to look like a wisper. They are a well put together product but no major innovation as far as I can see. Hopefully they will put together some truely innovative products together in future and they could then lay claim to some real intellectual property to defend their business.

I do think the manufacturers are normally a welcome presence including Wisper. although I do agree with you in regards to this thread where there are some slightly unprofessional comments (in my opinion). Most of my comments earlier on in the thread were because it did get my back up a bit one manufacturer tarnishing another so blatently. People robbing ideas goes on all the time in business and most of the time there's nothing you can do about it especially if the ideas not that original in the first place. If you ask me any mtb with a battery behind the seat is going to look like a wisper. They are a well put together product but no major innovation as far as I can see. Hopefully they will put together some truely innovative products together in future and they could then lay claim to some real intellectual property to defend their business.

 

Well I think it's fair to blatantly tarnish another company that's blatantly ripping you off. The bike in question isn't just another mountain bike with a battery behind the seat. It's a clone. Some might say that the manufacturer of the clone is deliberately misleading their customers while leeching off another company.

 

Yet it does beg the question why they would clone something that isn't exactly popular yet. It's quite possible that the frame is a generic inexpensive frame that's being sold in China. If that's the case then calling it a "clone" would be totally unfair.

It's not a generic frame, though similar in style to some others. Wisper spent time and money in it's development to achieve it's lightness and strength, and as David remarked, much effort and many thousands of miles of travel have gone into getting every aspect of the bike improved to a standard suitable to Western customers. Battery development alone and a change of manufacturer for that have been the occasion of much work.

 

The work has paid off and the 905 that WEVCO made when David took over the company was nothing like as good as the current 905se. I can well understand his annoyance when an employee leaves and imitates their efforts with an inferior clone.

 

The Wisper brand is popular enough to be in a number of countries in both hemispheres now, so I can understand someone wanting to cash in on that image rather than thinking of something original. The doesn't excuse the copying, and I have no objection to David's colourful description of that person. Anyone knowing David personally will know he isn't in any way a malicious man.

.

The work has paid off and the 905 that WEVCO made when David took over the company was nothing like as good as the current 905se. I can well understand his annoyance when an employee leaves and imitates their efforts with an inferior clone.

.

 

Ooooh! The plot thickens!

 

I'm sure the "employee" would have a story to tell.

 

I think despite good intentions I can see how a manufacturer's presence in a forum in always going to be a little strained. Especially when the manufacturers are renting ad space from the forum host. It could make it difficult for the forum's host to remain impartial.

 

For example - I've noticed that our bike reviews are vetted.

I don't know exactly what David pays to advertise Wisper on the forum but I don't think any of us who have read posts on here over a period of time really believe it influences the content of the forum at all, and I don't think David would want it to. I imagine most of the value he gets out of it is as a focus group to hear what people do and don't like.

 

For one thing, the Wisper ad is almost a year out of date, advertising their old bike, the 905e! If it was really so important, they would have updated it, but I am sure David has a hundred things higher up on his to-do list.

 

Employees leave and some of them set up in competition - that's life! No point in David chasing them through courts, but its best just to get on with innovating the product, as Wisper has done. The ex-employee may put out a passable imitation at first, but if he is good, his product will develop in other directions; if not, it will just be old, cheap technology.

Edited August 17, 200817 yr by frank9755

Our administrator Russ who set up this forum only examines the reviews before publication to prevent something malicious being posted. He doesn't edit the gist of the reviews in any way.

 

Obviously factual mistakes have to be corrected, for example someone saying a bike has an NiMh battery when in fact it's a lithium one, since they could mislead others.

 

We have in fact previously lost an advertiser who was displeased, but the site is more important than any individual advertiser so I think you can rest assured about undue influence.

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Well I think it's fair to blatantly tarnish another company that's blatantly ripping you off. The bike in question isn't just another mountain bike with a battery behind the seat. It's a clone. Some might say that the manufacturer of the clone is deliberately misleading their customers while leeching off another company.

 

Yet it does beg the question why they would clone something that isn't exactly popular yet. It's quite possible that the frame is a generic inexpensive frame that's being sold in China. If that's the case then calling it a "clone" would be totally unfair.

 

I don't really see how its a rip-off though. Its a mtb with a battery behind the seat. The frame looks a bit similar but I don't see them actively trying to cash in on the Wisper brand, they haven't copied the logo, graphics or anything. Lots of bikes look very similar, some look almost exactly the same. If its an ex-employee then its not really a surprise that hes doing what he knows best. Anyone who looks into it will see that the components are pretty much different and especially the battery isn't nearly as good (only 8 AH I think ). I don't see why Wisper are so annoyed about it.

I don't really see how its a rip-off though. Its a mtb with a battery behind the seat. The frame looks a bit similar but I don't see them actively trying to cash in on the Wisper brand, they haven't copied the logo, graphics or anything. Lots of bikes look very similar, some look almost exactly the same. If its an ex-employee then its not really a surprise that hes doing what he knows best. Anyone who looks into it will see that the components are pretty much different and especially the battery isn't nearly as good (only 8 AH I think ). I don't see why Wisper are so annoyed about it.

 

It's the frame that defines a bike. All bike manufacturers tend to use the same components - shimano cranks, gears etc. The only part the bike manufacturer actually designs and builds themselves is the frame. The "clone" bike's frame is almost identical to the Wisper's.

 

Since hearing that the guy was a former "employee" of WisperBikes I'm not going to judge him at all. I know how business arrangements can easily go bad through misunderstanding etc. For all we know the guy may have designed the frame himself.

 

The only thing that I do know is that I have a Wisper bike and I'm happy with it.

 

Thanks, David!

I personally welcome input from manufacturers / dealers and as long as they are identified as such and don't hide behind an alias I see no problem. Surely we are all adult and experienced enough in the world to know when a product is being pushed and most of us can decide the merits of a product from our own list of priorities and requirements.

I don't own a Wisper bike but do like to hear about developments and issues that are a result of customer feedback / problems and manufacturers responses as these problem areas tend to be common to all e-bikes.

I hope that we will continue to hear from all those commercially involved in e-bikes as such dialogue is helpful to all.

Edited August 18, 200817 yr by Saddlesore

If other members feel my presence is intrusive I will stop posting.

Getting answers direct from the horses mouth (as it were) is invaluable, as is being able to browse through the responses to other peoples problems.

 

I also know that WEVCO in particular have made several improvements to the 905 based on feedback from this forum, which is great.

 

As long as they identify themselves as such, I very much welcome the prescence of manufacturers.

 

Regards,

 

Elephants

For example - I've noticed that our bike reviews are vetted.

 

Hi Wibble, the only time a review doesn't get put up is when the reviewer has put a single one-liner for each of the headings. In that scenario I email them back asking them to provide more info. For example, one review I received said 'bike x is crap'. I don't call that constructive so an elaboration is required.