Chris

No, your not mad, it is everyone else:eek: hope you enjoy your ride this evening, but be wary of those pubs, they can be a real hazard when cycling;)

 

J:) hn

Another 14 miles

 

I was a bit later out this evening and kept the route minimal. 14 Miles, but still taking in Forhill (the 1 in 7 with bits of 1 in 4/5). Motor on low power all the time (you need to remember to re-activate power after braking, but I'm getting good at that). Average speed 13.2 - significantly, that's only a tad above the speed it wants to go on low power (12.5), suggesting that the battery/motor did a fair bit of work. There seemed to be plenty of life in the battery when I got home, but I didn't want to keep going round the block, so I don't know how much. Now I have established the way I like to ride this bike, I will try a more scientific range test when I can. 136 miles on the odometer now.......

 

Ps. It was Hereford Pale Ale tonight John - one of my all time favourites!

 

Chris

Edited June 10, 200817 yr by Chris_Bike

Is it easy to swap batteries if a spare is carried Chris? Apologies if this has already been covered previously.

.

Yes, very. The battery connector is a multi-pin plug that tightens on the battery via a simple twist fitting, I probably intend to buy a second battery which could be best carried in a second bottle carrier on the seat tube. I am waiting to assess range in Wales when I can get out there. Around Birmingham I seem able to get the claimed 20 miles per charge quite easily.

 

Chris

Thanks Chris. The range in Wales will be interesting when you get a chance to assess that, and a second battery will make that easier to do.

.

I was wondering about the battery. My guess is that it is two strings of AA's in parallel. They must be good quality to withstand the 4C current requirement though.

I did discuss the batteries with Mark when I decided to buy the bike. I know they tried batteries from several suppliers before they settled on the ones they currently use. Their batteries also have a built in voltage regulator providing ~7v for the lights.

 

I have been working from home today. Started at 7.30 so, at 12.30 when the sun came out, so did I! I'm having a serious attempt to assess range. I'm in the Warwickshire countryside between B'ham and Stratford. The terrain is rolling - not the 1 in 4/5 on the way back from my usual pub, but plenty of hills. Apart from a couple of times when I used high power to get past any ill-mannered bus and safely cross a roundabout that enters the M42, I have had low power on ALL the time. I've just stopped for lunch at Lowsenford (12.5 miles) so I should manage to run the battery down on the way back.

 

I'll tell you later!

 

Chris

27.9 miles!

 

Yes folks, that's the distance I have just ridden before the battery failed.....

 

To recap, my ride was south of Birmingham in the Warwickshire countryside. Out through Shirley towards Henley before turing for Losensford, Lapwoth and back via Earlswood Lakes. Its constantly rolling. No 20% but plenty of 10% hills and above. I left the power on low ALL the time. If I cut it by applying the brakes, I turned it straight back on, even if I was going down hill. Of course, the motor cuts out at 12.5 mph anyway on low power mode, but riding this way means I get help on all hills and when accelerating away from anything that has slowed me down.

 

My average speed was 13.6 which is, of course, above the 12.5 mph cutout and I look forward to another flurry of posts teelling me that I can only get this performance out of the bike because I am so fit. Whilst I am enormously flattered (and greatly amused) by the theory that I am some kind of cross betwen Lance Armstrong and Eddy Merckx, this notion is not only wildly inaccurate, it also misses the point. I think the Cytronex performs so well because it is so easy to ride, with or without motor assistance. The drag on the motor hub is negligable and the weight and general standard of equipment just make for a nippy ride. I can ride it at 15mph on the flat with ease and I genuinely believe that most of you could too.

 

That is the real genius of this bike and why distances like 28 miles are possible. As discussed with Flecc last night, the real test comes with my shopping run in Mid-Wales. That's a round trip of 16 miles, about 7-800 feet downhill then the same back up. We will see, but I am begining to think that it may be possible on a single battery (which I certainly didn't believe when I bought the bike).

 

BTW for the real cynics out there....... No, I don't work for Cytonnex, I paid the full price for both our bikes and I don't expect any favours from the company for posting my honest assessment of their bike. I truly think it is awesome and I would recommend anyone to try one out if they are looking for an Ebike. I know that other Forum members will be getting their bikes soon, so I lookforward to seeing if they agree.

 

Chris

Edited June 11, 200817 yr by Chris_Bike

thats a pretty impressive mileage Chris,,,given tha batteries are only £150 each you could get another 2 and have a real touring machine......

More questions out of curiosity...

 

Do you have the 160 rpm or 190 rpm motor?

 

If you lift the front wheel off the ground, what speed does it do on the two speed settings?

Thanks Chris, everyone of your posts so far has me glad I've got one on order

More questions out of curiosity...

 

Do you have the 160 rpm or 190 rpm motor?

 

If you lift the front wheel off the ground, what speed does it do on the two speed settings?

 

The label on the motor says 180W and 175 rpm, but I think I remember Mark saying it was 190 rpm on the other thread. I've just tested the speeds off ground but this was with a warm fully charged battery: 15.5mph on low and 18.2 mph on high. I find these translate to about 12.5 and 16 on the road.

 

Chris

 

ps. I have just looked in the other thread and it was Flecc who mentionned a 190 rpm motor, so I guess it's 175 (unless this and the 180W are marked as "rated" for legal reasons in various countries). If Mark reads this, perhaps he can say?

Edited June 11, 200817 yr by Chris_Bike

I was wondering about the battery. My guess is that it is two strings of AA's in parallel. They must be good quality to withstand the 4C current requirement though.

 

The size, weight and capacity suggests sub-C cells to me John, some of which claim a 35A max discharge current (~8C): Mark or others will be able to say for sure.

 

It sounds like its a 190rpm motor if the wheelsize is the same as the Trek 7.3FX spec (700 x 32c) - that would give a top motor-only speed of ~16mph on the road, as Chris said.

 

Stuart.

Edited June 11, 200817 yr by coops

Tongxin does make a 175 rpm motor, so if that's what the label says, it probably is that.

For reference the speeds are:

160

175

190

210

230

260

 

Frank

Thanks Chris, everyone of your posts so far has me glad I've got one on order

 

When does yours arrive Andy?

 

Chris

Edited June 11, 200817 yr by Chris_Bike

With the greatest of respect Chris, the figures just don't seem to add up to me as I've said and, just in case you consider me to be one of the 'cynics' you refer to, I have never for one second doubted either your sincerity or your genuine happiness with & infectious enthusiasm for the bike.

 

Whilst I am enormously flattered (and greatly amused) by the theory that I am some kind of cross betwen Lance Armstrong and Eddy Merckx, this notion is not only wildly inaccurate, it also misses the point. I think the Cytronex performs so well because it is so easy to ride, with or without motor assistance.

 

That is the real genius of this bike and why distances like 28 miles are possible.

 

I don't disagree about the motor's ease of riding and if my assessment of your level of input on is wildly inaccurate and the bike instead performs far beyond expected then I will gladly retract my statements to the contrary.

 

First of all, some facts about Forhill. My "full" version of the hill is 1 mile long. It is marked as 15% (1 in 7) but probably rises to 1 in 4 or 5 at it's steepest. I followed Marks advice and went through the gears in both the large and middle ring to keep my cadence up. I covered most of the hill at 9 - 11mph, dropping just a fraction below 8 on the last 1 in 4 bit. All this was with the motor on the low power setting. An excellent result, I think.

 

I calculate that the motor output is approximately half the 800W required for the 15% climb at 10mph, which means the remaining 400W power is rider input, which would be no small feat - equivalent, for example, to climbing about a 13-14% gradient in a Torq1, when the often-stated normal limit is 10%, or climbing a 10% (1 in 10) slope on an unassisted bike at around 7mph.

 

I don't doubt that its a great bike to ride, but I do strongly question how much power output you are accrediting to the bike, and not your legpower, for your results .

 

Stuart.

Edited June 11, 200817 yr by coops

The label on the motor says 180W and 175 rpm, but I think I remember Mark saying it was 190 rpm on the other thread. I've just tested the speeds off ground but this was with a warm fully charged battery: 15.5mph on low and 18.2 mph on high. I find these translate to about 12.5 and 16 on the road.

 

Chris

 

ps. I have just looked in the other thread and it was Flecc who mentionned a 190 rpm motor, so I guess it's 175 (unless this and the 180W are marked as "rated" for legal reasons in various countries). If Mark reads this, perhaps he can say?

 

 

175 rpm sounds right and makes sense. The 190 rpm motor gives you a 20 mph unloaded speed and around 17 mph on the road.

How much leeway is there with the motors' rpm? Even on a fresh charge, 190rpm in 700 x 32c wheels/tyres is barely 16mph? 175rpm would give about 15mph maximum, less than Chris has measured? Unless the speedometer is incorrectly set for the wheel size, perhaps.

 

Stuart.

 

I calculate that the motor output is approximately half the 800W required for the 15% climb at 10mph, which means the remaining 400W power is rider input, which would be no small feat - equivalent, for example, to climbing about a 13-14% gradient in a Torq1, when the often-stated normal limit is 10%, or climbing a 10% (1 in 10) slope on an unassisted bike at around 7mph.

 

I don't doubt that its a great bike to ride, but I do strongly question how much power output you are accrediting to the bike, and not your legpower, for your results .

 

Stuart.

 

I'd refrained from commenting on this, but I'd already seen that Chris is a far more powerful rider than he feels he is. The Tongxin motor simply isn't capable of miracles, the motor technology is quite normal and the Nano only gains over others fractionally due to it's roller drive efficiency gain. Most e-bike riders using the bike in the way they usually do, power all the time, wouldn't get to 10 miles on the battery and would complain it wasn't brilliant on hills. The majority certainly wouldn't be able to climb 1 in 4, since many of them can't do that on the most powerful very large batteried hub motor bikes.

 

Of course it's not meant for the run of the mill e-bike users who ride in moped mode, and in the hands of the keen cyclist it's intended for to help a bit on hills, it can perform well and I've no doubt it's a delight then.

 

My only concern is if Chris's obvious enthusiasm gets the wrong people to buy and be disappointed, and it's important that everyone understands the limitations of this kind of system. We saw this problem on the Torq 1, with many buyers misled by enthusiastic reports from capable cyclists and subsequently terribly disappointed. The result was a string of sales of nearly new Torqs at less than half of the new price in many cases.

.

Chris,

 

The decision was a bit of a change of direction as I was going to get an Ezee hub for my Yuba cargo bike. I was quite excited to notice that the new UK distributors listed the Ezee kit, but 2 unanswered email enqiries and a phone enquiry when someone was going to get back to me and didn't, left me less sure. (In complete contrast to ebike in Canada who responded very quickly and helpfully to several queries.) I was going to wait until ebike had them back in stock and then read your posts on Cytronex.

 

Thinking it through some more I acknowledged that 90% of useage would be for commuting 15 miles each way to work. If it'll help with pulling a child trailer occassionally as well I'll take that as a bonus. Mark was helpful and responsive, I'd prefer to go for UK based supplier and your enthusiastic posts clinched it for me.

 

I don't have a specific delivery date yet, but I'm hoping days rather than weeks. I'm up in Perthshire and all but the last couple of miles is country lanes. I'm really looking forward to being able to get in some quality riding time, which is quite difficult with a littl'un, and it be under the guise of doing something I have to anyway ie get to work

 

Andy

Much of what flecc posted is really all I was trying to say, especially the last part: the hard learnt lessons of the Torq1 for many who found it wouldn't climb their hills (too steep at over ~10%) in particular on my mind. The enthusiasm is refreshing but as always its important it doesn't cloud accurate information about performance: I hope the added clarification of what type of riding & terrain the bike will suit will help prospective owners choose a bike, and the experiences of others should add to whats known about its range of use.

 

And I'm relieved I'm not going mad, I was beginning to wonder!

 

Happy cycling everyone!

 

Stuart.

Edited June 12, 200817 yr by coops

Most e-bike riders using the bike in the way they usually do, power all the time, wouldn't get to 10 miles on the battery and would complain it wasn't brilliant on hills. The majority certainly wouldn't be able to climb 1 in 4, since many of them can't do that on the most powerful very large batteried hub motor bikes.

 

I think that 10 miles is probably reasonable to expect for 36V/4Ah battery, but not too much more for 'normal' commuting, for an efficient setup like this one.

 

The setup is probably one of the better hill climbers, judging form my 260rpm in 26" wheel going up moderate hills nicely. Having a full range of gears does help the rider to always be able to provide an efficient input.

 

We saw this problem on the Torq 1.

 

I can see people getting carried away with Chris's enthusiasm. I am still more concerned about reliability. It would be nice to learn from TongXin that they had learned how to glue magnets on at least and perhaps a run of 6 month without people reporting major problems.

Edited June 12, 200817 yr by john

Much of what flecc posted is really all I was trying to say, especially the last part: the hard learnt lessons of the Torq1 for many who found it wouldn't climb their hills (too steep at over ~10%) in particular on my mind.

 

I just remembered, I took my bike on holiday recently on a track with the kids and came to a 1 in 8. I can just about tackle this in bottom gear (of 24) just pedalling and adding motor power helped enormously even though the motor couldn't have managed it on its own. I think one of the issues with the Torq1 was that it didn't have any low gears.

Personally, I think what is needed in this thread is a bit of balance, fairness and an open mind rather than pre judge the Cytronex before it has really hit the road.

Not everyone wants a heavy 'electric moped'.

Sure Chris is very enthusiastic and enjoying the bike, but there is a lot of negative stuff from people who have not even seen the bike let alone ridden one. Why can't we just wait until there are a few more Cytronex owners out there and allow them to comment before writing it off.

 

J:) hn

Reviews

 

It should not perhaps be a surprise to us on introducing an innovative new product there will be others in the industry that will be worried by the competition. I notice the same few names keep appearing in threads about our product with negative comments every time something positive is said, yet none of these names have ever been on our bikes! Shame that they feel they have to knock a British design.

 

Regarding torque, I am 43 years old and was the only Cytronex bike entered in the Presteigne races - I came third in the hill climb, and 5th equal (out of 100 ebikes) in the race on Sunday. I was up against proper cyclists fielded by some of the big names in the industry. I have never been in any cycle race before and yet I beat a great many Torq, Heinzmann, Kalkhoff, Giant, etc.. However, they are all good bikes and I am certainly not going to detract from them – in fact I want us all to sell as many as possible to get more cars off the road.

 

We certainly do want people to pedal, our bike is designed for the enjoyment of cycling, it is not intended as a moped substitute. Yet Cytronex can give any of the big names a run for there money in hill climbing due to its excellent power to weight ratio, and real bike geometry.

 

I would urge people to judge for themselves or read the reviews from those who have actually tried the bike. We have only just started so these will come out as soon as we can ship the bikes.

 

Regarding other questions: motor is 175rpm, 180 watts is rated for China. We are not using AA cells or C or sub C cells. Our battery is an innovative product and we have been working directly with the cell manufacturer. The result is a small battery that packs a big punch!