I did just hear something about a diesel car scrappage scheme on the BBC news.

Bonkers, the last one was bad enough.

I did just hear something about a diesel car scrappage scheme on the BBC news.

Bonkers, the last one was bad enough.

The last one worked out well for me as there was a shortage of second hand cars which made mine worth £1500 more in px than I was offered the year before.

I find the MPG figures can be achieved with our Golf. I can't get the claimed 80 MPG but I can get it into the 70s. It's not really practical to drive it that way all the time though and I would say that a realistic average is in the high 50s.

 

I had quite a gap in VW ownership from my Mk2 to the current one. The ownership experience has plummeted. The VW main dealership network is like swimming in a tank of sharks. They are constantly searching for loopholes to get out of their obligations and trying to talk you into unnecessary work being carried out on the car.

 

SCR urea injection is the only way to cut NOx without hurting mpg. Adblue DEF costs about £1 per litre, 1L is sufficient for about 50 litres of diesel.

Would VW supply DEF free for the lifetime of their cars?

I find the MPG figures can be achieved with our Golf. I can't get the claimed 80 MPG but I can get it into the 70s. It's not really practical to drive it that way all the time though and I would say that a realistic average is in the high 50s.

 

I had quite a gap in VW ownership from my Mk2 to the current one. The ownership experience has plummeted. The VW main dealership network is like swimming in a tank of sharks. They are constantly searching for loopholes to get out of their obligations and trying to talk you into unnecessary work being carried out on the car.

My experience in buying my last 2 cars have been really good. In fact I was beginning to believe that there is a new breed of salesperson out there. Both local dealerships, Bradford Audi, and Skipton Ford. I would readily recommend both so perhaps you need to shop elsewhere next time you buy a VW....

My experience in buying my last 2 cars have been really good. In fact I was beginning to believe that there is a new breed of salesperson out there. Both local dealerships, Bradford Audi, and Skipton Ford. I would readily recommend both so perhaps you need to shop elsewhere next time you buy a VW....

 

How are they on the service department front? that's where they all seem to fall down on.

I'm glad I'm no longer putting myself at their mercy.

How are they on the service department front? that's where they all seem to fall down on.

I'm glad I'm no longer putting myself at their mercy.

Both spot on. With the ford they came to collect and delivery was as promised with no unexpected charges. The Audi is something else. . I have a 5 years free service plan and when I arrive I am met by a young lady who asks about any problems and takes the car from me. I can wait or view progress and am supplied with refreshments if required while she stays with the car and logs the progress. The only minor fly in the ointment was my dash cam which is descretely fitted behind the mirror and it recorded the test drive where the driver was bragging to my young lady about his recent exploits using a lot of words beginning with F.

Car was returned to me all spick and span inside and out with nothing to pay.

It's a relief to know that my 20 year old VW T4 diesel campervan has no software !

 

Just a good old fashioned mechanical diesel pump and mechanical injectors.

 

It still gives good mileage though, around 35mpg, from a 2.5 litre diesel, in a two and half ton motor caravan body.

 

Do you have to adjust the pump using the screw to pass the MOT?

 

Lots of the old diesels had to be manually adjusted to pass the emissions test, and then when the owner drove home the car would hardly have enough power to get up to the speed limit. So back at home it was just unscrewed a bit and got its normal performance back as well as polluting like hell of course. Those were the pre ECU diesels.

 

A similar thing will probably happen when these VWs have the cheat device removed and the performance goes down with the emissions. Many owners just won’t take them in and there will be so many that follow up will be all but impossible. It’s not just VW either. The EU test is a joke and everyone knows it. But the car makers have the ears of governments. This will be the beginning of the end for diesel cars though and road tax bands will rise along with the tax on diesel.

 

The modified system utilised a chemical which needs replenishing at £50 a time. No doubt the base cost of this chemical is about 50p...

 

I'd be mighty pissed off paying even 50p...

 

"Selective catalytic reducer (SCR) work by injecting urea into the exhaust, which reacts with nitrogen oxides, forming harmless nitrogen gas and water. Car owners have to refill the tank of urea* (sold as AdBlue) every few months."

 

*Aqueous Urea Solution 32.5%

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn28240-how-did-volkswagen-cheat-in-tests-and-can-it-fix-affected-cars/

Do you have to adjust the pump using the screw to pass the MOT?

 

Lots of the old diesels had to be manually adjusted to pass the emissions test, and then when the owner drove home the car would hardly have enough power to get up to the speed limit. So back at home it was just unscrewed a bit and got its normal performance back as well as polluting like hell of course. Those were the pre ECU diesels...........

 

No, I've never had to fiddle with anything to get through the annual MOT.

 

I've had it for 15 years, and although its needed the occasional brake pads or exhaust, it's always sailed through the emissions tests.

 

Because of its age, it's only banded as a > 1549cc, which equates in tax fee to emission band i in the a to m range, about halfway.

 

I remember an old Montego I had many years ago though, you had to thrash it for a mile or so in third gear just before the test, to burn the crap in the cylinder heads.

Dear Volkswagen customer,

We regret to inform you that the Type EA 189 engine built into your vehicle with the Vehicle Identification Number wvwzzz13zev****** you submitted, is affected by software that causes discrepancies in the values for oxides of nitrogen (NOx) during dynometer runs. Your car is safe from a technical standpoint and roadworthy.

We are very sorry to have broken your trust and are working at full speed to find a technical solution. Volkswagen will cover the cost relating directly to this repair.

We will be in touch with you directly to explain what steps are required. We'll do the necessary work at our cost and have you quickly back on the road.

Yours faithfully,

Volkswagen.

 

I guess I'm cheating with the car as well now:(

Dave.

Dear Volkswagen customer,

We regret to inform you that the Type EA 189 engine built into your vehicle with the Vehicle Identification Number wvwzzz13zev****** you submitted, is affected by software that causes discrepancies in the values for oxides of nitrogen (NOx) during dynometer runs. Your car is safe from a technical standpoint and roadworthy.

We are very sorry to have broken your trust and are working at full speed to find a technical solution. Volkswagen will cover the cost relating directly to this repair.

We will be in touch with you directly to explain what steps are required. We'll do the necessary work at our cost and have you quickly back on the road.

Yours faithfully,

Volkswagen.

 

I guess I'm cheating with the car as well now:(

Dave.

Did it say..

Dear future VW customer....[emoji844]

Whatever happened to Vorsprung durch technik?

 

Jim

Did it say..

Dear future VW customer....[emoji844]

"Yours faithfully" is bad enough.

Here's the link if anyone else wants to check their car.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/dieselinfo

 

Dave.

I've long been a fan of VW engineering, right back to owning a Beetle in the 1970's.

 

So I have no axe to grind with them, but I'm wondering how far this could potentially go.

 

As this was a clearly identifiable culpable con on a huge scale, that has already been conceded by the company, is it not possible that buyers of the affected vehicles can now claim a full refund of the purchase price, and return their cars ?

 

The two main reasons for buying an alleged low emission car are to get lower road tax, and to personally cause lower pollution to the planet. Either motive now makes these vehicles totally "unfit for purpose".

 

Since it would seem impossible to update the software to give the advertised performance and stay with the emission banding, I can't see how they could avoid being forced to refund ?

The two main reasons for buying an alleged low emission car are to get lower road tax, and to personally cause lower pollution to the planet. Either motive now makes these vehicles totally "unfit for purpose".

 

The UK government now seem to have indemnified against VED loss, saying these cars will remain in their current band, apparently without requiring proof of conversion. Probably part of keeping Europe sweet ahead of renegotiation.

.

That's a tricky decision....

 

All the other manufacturers that were possibly struggling to achieve the same performance and consumption without going up in the VED bands must be miffed at that.

 

I wonder what the Yanks will do....

The UK government now seem to have indemnified against VED loss, saying these cars will remain in their current band, apparently without requiring proof of conversion.

 

I hope that this is true, because I quite like the idea of a 150 hp (I suspect this figure is a fiddle too) car in a £30/year tax banding. That was the main reason I bought it.

The newspaper is also reporting that it has seen a letter in which VW supplier Bosch warned the VW Group in 2007 that the software was illegal for road use, and highlighting that it was only being made available for test purposes.

 

Warned them whilst making hundreds of thousands of them for test purposes? Sounds fishy to me..

I wonder what the Yanks will do....

 

In the USA, I'd hazard there will be a federal-wide, class-action lawsuit organised by a group of highly expensive law firms.

 

In the UK, while not unique, a class-action lawsuit would be something of a novelty but it will certainly be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

Tom

Warned them whilst making hundreds of thousands of them for test purposes? Sounds fishy to me..

 

No it is software. They provided a copy and VW loaded copies of it into the on-board computers of all cars they thought might need a helping hand

No it is software. They provided a copy and VW loaded copies of it into the on-board computers of all cars they thought might need a helping hand

 

You sure? I'm fairly sure that hardware has been mentioned in the press..

What does the general press know about computers? They are the things you write articles on! You mean they have them in cars too now?

 

When you go to your garage what does the mechanic do? Plugs into the ECU (car world buzz acronym for "computer"). The software controls the hardware. The press is supposing that the software is hard coded into a chip somewhere but I bet that it is just flashed into an EPROM like all other embarked computing.

 

Why go to the expense of doing it otherwise? Answer: no we wouldn't, think of the bottom line let's do it the cheap way.

 

Would Bosch actually want to get their hands dirty and provide hundreds of thousands of chips with compromising software on them? I think the answer is pretty clear on this one, no. We will provide the code and cover our bums with a warning e-mail or letter to protect our shareholders interests.

What does the general press know about computers? They are the things you write articles on! You mean they have them in cars too now?

 

When you go to your garage what does the mechanic do? Plugs into the ECU (car world buzz acronym for "computer"). The software controls the hardware. The press is supposing that the software is hard coded into a chip somewhere but I bet that it is just flashed into an EPROM like all other embarked computing.

 

Why go to the expense of doing it otherwise? Answer: no we wouldn't, think of the bottom line let's do it the cheap way.

 

Would Bosch actually want to get their hands dirty and provide hundreds of thousands of chips with compromising software on them? I think the answer is pretty clear on this one, no. We will provide the code and cover our bums with a warning e-mail or letter to protect our shareholders interests.

 

I never really thought of Bosch as a software supplier. I think they're clearly stupid in writing something like that in the first place. Why would anyone want software that does that - for test reasons -??

 

Apparently some of the VW engines will need their injectors changed to meet the emissions they claimed to have. What a mess they made for themselves..

They make electronics. To make their hardware work you need software! Different motors can use the same ECU but require different software programs depending on their individual characteristics.

 

Modern motors in the higher end are mostly "drive by wire" i.e. when you put your foot down a sensor tells the computer to do all that needs to be done to accelerate - there is no mechanical linkage between accelerator and the motor just lots of 0s and 1s.

 

Modern motors in the higher end are mostly "drive by wire" i.e. when you put your foot down a sensor tells the computer to do all that needs to be done to accelerate - there is no mechanical linkage between accelerator and the motor just lots of 0s and 1s.

 

I know. I had a hell of a time with my old Volvo C70 T5 crumby Magneti Morelli built FBW throttle body. Changed it twice for no small cost before the car blew itself up. I would have killed for a normal bit of cable then..