Agree, I was speaking of highway speed limits which only ever go down, rather than a specific like that which may have been influenced by EU law, since that has also increased sizes and weights over time.

 

We've had our assist limit help from the EU with the change from 12 to 15.5 mph, and our leaving will end that influence anyway.

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Well the HGV speed limits are highway speed limits..... speed limits specifically just for HGV vehicles.

Just like the 15.5 mph cut off is specifically for Ebikes.

 

There's no reason why the ebike 15.5 mph cut off couldn't be raised..... just like HGV speed limits were raised.

Well the HGV speed limits are highway speed limits..... speed limits specifically just for HGV vehicles.

 

I'm sure you know what I mean, general speed limits applying to all vehicles. If changed they only ever go down.

 

There's no reason why the ebike 15.5 mph cut off couldn't be raised..... just like HGV speed limits were raised.

 

Of course there's no reason why they couldn't be raised. But for legal bureaucracy free pedelecs they won't be.

 

Bot the EU and the UK's DfT have made that very clear.

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I'm sure you know what I mean, general speed limits applying to all vehicles. If changed they only ever go down.

 

 

 

Of course there's no reason why they couldn't be raised. But for legal bureaucracy free pedelecs they won't be.

 

Bot the EU and the UK's DfT have made that very clear.

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Well you were clearly wrong about speed limits only always going down....... but i suspect you had no knowledge of HGV legislation and the recent changes.

But thats what you get by making sweeping statements.

 

As for saying pedelecs wont be..... how do you know this for certain ? Its just what you believe, nothing more.

You cant see the future.

Ah but you are speaking about progress, in which I agree. I'm speaking about UK governance!

 

They're happy to be creaming the profits surrounding the vast numbers of high powered ebikes being sold here. Maybe that's why nothing gets done about them being used freely in the UK so far.

 

Perhaps they'll have to step up at some point and cover that complicity with some enhanced legality.

 

It's the same with cars and motorways. It's been 70 mph since 1965. No-one ever gets bothered for doing 80.

 

There was even a debate recently about raising the motorway speed limit from 70 to 80..... It never happened, but that doesn't mean it wont get debated again and next time it could be changed.

I think there's a good argument for the cut off speed to be raised from 15.5 to 20mph...... it may never happen, but it just as easily could.

Well you were clearly wrong about speed limits only always going down....... but i suspect you had no knowledge of HGV legislation and the recent changes.

But thats what you get by making sweeping statements.

 

I mentioned Road Traffic Law, so that was the context of my post, not a specific pertaining to a particular class of vehicles.

 

As for saying pedelecs wont be..... how do you know this for certain ? Its just what you believe, nothing more.

 

No it's not just what I believe, it's what has been said on the subject by both EU and UK authorities. In both cases they rule that higher speeds have to be accompanied by additional bureaucratic controls. In the UK's case the additions are extensive.

 

All the evidence backs what I contend, were you aware for example that the newest change means even some bicycle assist limits require a driving licence?

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Authorities say all sorts of things and make rules that are later changed.

Nothing stays the same for ever.

I think there's a good argument for the cut off speed to be raised from 15.5 to 20mph...... it may never happen, but it just as easily could.

 

Absolutely. 20 mph is a much stronger selling point for the seasoned cyclists than 15 is. Just look at the voting results above. The people have spoken.

 

My kit-bike cuts off at 19.5, so 20 is seen on screen as I'm pushing along. Just 4 miles in it, but a world of difference.

 

And, when this Godforsaken rain stops, I'm off to get wet at any speed!

Any more Mystic Meg's in here that absolutely, definitely know whats going to happen in the future ?

If so, i'll have next weeks Lotto numbers.

 

Ta.

Absolutely. 20 mph is a much stronger selling point for the seasoned cyclists than 15 is. Just look at the voting results above. The people have spoken.

 

My kit-bike cuts off at 19.5, so 20 is seen on screen as I'm pushing along. Just 4 miles in it, but a world of difference.

 

And, when this Godforsaken rain stops, I'm off to get wet at any speed!

 

I agree, 20mph will be the cut off speed for my next kit that i fit.

I see that speed as a happy medium between just enough speed & battery range.

To clarify matters I went to a respected fortune tellers office, but it was closed due to unforeseen circumstances.

Authorities say all sorts of things and make rules that are later changed.

Nothing stays the same for ever.

 

Just don't hold you breath!

 

Current intentions are that we will soon get the higher bicycle assist speeds in the UK, namely up to 45 kph / 28 mph.

 

Accompanied by registration, number plate, compulsory insurance, compulsory helmet wearing and a group AM driving licence. The law for the latter licence group has recently been put in place.

 

So not exactly a bureaucracy free pedelec.

 

The problem is that once that's available, there's no reason for the government to change the pedelec limit, since those who want more speed will be catered for.

 

This is why I'm so confident our pedelec assist limit will not change.

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Just don't hold you breath!

 

Current intentions are that we will soon get the higher bicycle assist speeds in the UK, namely up to 45 kph / 28 mph.

 

Accompanied by registration, number plate, compulsory insurance, compulsory helmet wearing and a group AM driving licence. The law for the latter licence group has recently been put in place.

 

So not exactly a bureaucracy free pedelec.

 

The problem is that once that's available, there's no reason for the government to change the pedelec limit, since those who want more speed will be catered for.

 

This is why I'm so confident our pedelec assist limit will not change.

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You can be confident all you like but it still doesn't make it a certainty for the future.

You can be confident all you like but it still doesn't make it a certainty for the future.

 

Time will tell, as it has over the decades of my saying the same about the pedelec assist limit, and not being wrong to date.

 

I'm not against a higher speed like 20 mph, but don't see any chance of it happening.

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I can see that an 'S' class, with machines capable of nearly 30mph would have to have extra restrictions, as otherwise the Motorcycle trade would doubtless loudly cry "foul"!

 

I also accept that the OP's suggestion of legalising power up to 20mph or so is most unlikely to be adopted. What I don't understand is WHY NOT? Whatever are 'the authorities' so frightened of?

 

It would - in my view - be a most sensible change, enabling our machines to be both more thrilling to ride and yet more practical, without the disproportionate and unnecessarily draconian consequences of getting 'caught' hanging over us. Such a change would doubtless improve sales too. Those who prefer to go around at 12-15 would happily continue doing so, I don't see that as a reason to oppose the idea.

Part if me isn't too happy about a 14 year old whizzing on footpaths at 20mph or even a "dongled" bike touching 40???

I also accept that the OP's suggestion of legalising power up to 20mph or so is most unlikely to be adopted. What I don't understand is WHY NOT? Whatever are 'the authorities' so frightened of?

 

What they are frightened of is "being first, being different". Both of these are anathema to civil servants and to a great extent politicians. Doing "the same thing, the accepted thing" means that if something goes wrong, they avoid blame. If they do something different, the blame is theirs.

 

Back in the early 1980s Britain was a leader in the idea of having e-bikes, so in our 1983 law the limits were set at 200 watts power, thought to be about rider level, and 12 mph assist limit, which had been a common utility cycling speed when Britain was cycling post WW2. Also long ago the Japanese set their pedelec scene with the similar 25 kph and 250 watts, matching their slow cycling conditions. Then the EU followed suit by adopting the same, since their main cycling nations like The Netherlands generally cycled quite slowly.

 

So the blockage is mainly due to how others cycle. The Dutch are the major cycling nation, 70% cycle, but they famously cycle quite slowly, and the Danish and German utility cyclists don't exactly set the roads alight. That makes the EU quite content with the 25 kph limit, especially since many of them have the S class option if they want to ride faster. And the Japanese have to cycle slowly since in many areas by law they have to cycle on the pavements with pedestrians. China's limit has been at 12mph for many years, also now with the intention of adopting EU law, so once again following what others do. The UK is the odd one out in cycling practice with higher road speeds, mainly due to cycling's revival here from 1980 onwards being sporting biased with little to no utility cycling.

 

All this leaves our civil servants and politicians unwilling to step out of line and risk things going wrong, which in any case fits well with our long established "Nanny State" inclinations.

 

This unwillingness to break ranks phenomena is common in business too, company buyers playing safe in buying established respected names, making it tough for even the best newcomers to break into a market. They know if they buy different and it goes wrong, they'll be looking for another job.

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Edited August 26, 20169 yr by flecc

The current Westminster wish to get more people cycling means that the new cyclists are unlikely to be super fit and able to go at 20mph.

Also, there is the headache of the demand for more cycle lanes. The current British fudge re cycling on pavements, coupled with the possibility of new cyclists preferring to go slowly on footpaths means that legislators will not want to increase the limits on EAPCs.

Part if me isn't too happy about a 14 year old whizzing on footpaths at 20mph or even a "dongled" bike touching 40???

Then maybe they should raise the age limit to 16, in line with mopeds...

 

Mark

Then maybe they should raise the age limit to 16, in line with mopeds...

 

Mark

 

Quite the opposite, we are alone in having a lower age limit, there shouldn't be any.

 

As in mainland Europe, anyone who rides a bike should be able to ride a pedelec, regardless of how young or old they are. That's precisely the point of the 15.5 mph / 25 kph assist and 250 watt power limits, so that pedelecs are available to all cyclists.

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Quite the opposite, we are alone in having a lower age limit, there shouldn't be any.

 

As in mainland Europe, anyone who rides a bike should be able to ride a pedelec, regardless of how young or old they are. That's precisely the point of the 15.5 mph / 25 kph assist and 250 watt power limits, so that pedelecs are available to all cyclists.

While I do see your point Flecc, it is not true to say that the use of pedelecs is available to all in the way that bicycle use is.

There are many different sides to this debate & let's face it, even members of this forum will never agree.

I agree that I would be uneasy about, basically, kids flying down the path on 20mph+ machines, but the same applies to currently legal ebikes. I live in Hull & thankfully I haven't seen this yet. If ebikes do become popular with youngsters, time will tell!

I have full car & motorcycle entitlement, so I can go down any (transport) route I choose. However, for many reasons I choose to use ebikes (I use this term to encompass machines such as my, legal as far as I know, 10yr old CB26 ).

While 15.5mph is fine for pleasure purposes, it would be very useful to legally go a bit faster at times, but not so fast as to 'warrant ' excessive extra restrictions. I'm fairly sure many on here would agree.

For the record though, I don't see anything much changing for the better under this or any subsequent UK government.

Kind regards, Mark

it is not true to say that the use of pedelecs is available to all in the way that bicycle use is.

 

Thanks for the reply Mark. However I don't understand why you say the thing I've quoted. In what way is pedelec usage not possible for anyone who already cycles? For example, they don't seem to have a problem with young usage in The Netherlands, as you see below:

 

Hi Flecc, I refer to in the UK, not the EU in general, as of course we do have an age limit. This also possibly raises questions about electric 'toys ' that are not currently categorised, don't you think?

While I know our opinions differ, I wholly respect yours, and mine are often based on what I see as appropriate restrictions for sensible / responsible adults such as ourselves & many others on the forum.

Mark

of course we do have an age limit.

 

I thought it might interest you how our age limit came about.

 

Our 1983 law had no lower age limit but a 12 mph assist speed limit for everyone. Later in order to more closely match the EU we increased the assist limit a little to 15 mph. That prompted the 14 years lower age limit, which was added to the 1988 Road Traffic Act.

 

I still think it daft, considering how fast many of the kids ride bikes, even at well under 14 years old. Maybe the same daftness that limits adults to 15.5 mph assist?

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Our 1983 law had no lower age limit but a 12 mph assist speed limit for everyone. Later in order to more closely match the EU we increased the assist limit a little to 15 mph. That prompted the 14 years lower age limit, which was added to the 1988 Road Traffic Act.

 

I still think it daft, considering how fast many of the kids ride bikes, even at well under 14 years old. Maybe the same daftness that limits adults to 15.5 mph assist?

Thank you for that Flecc, I must admit I had absolutely no knowledge of that at all, or indeed have a great deal of knowledge regarding bicycle law in general, so will keep my eye out for other nuggets that crop up.

Regards Mark