http://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/nieuws/2017/2/bmzs-e-bike-super-batteries-3tron-available-in-my-2018-10128867?utm_source=Vakmedianet&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20170209-bikeeurope-std&tid=TIDP146603XE3ECE82670DC43F986D9C01ED30F6331YI4

Yep, Tesla apparently are to start a soft production run of the Model 3 this month, to iron out the glitches before the main ramp up in June.

 

Of course each car requires around 7000 of the new 2170 Cells, so there is not going to be many 2170 Cells going spare untill at least 2018.

 

Your link does not refer to Panasonic/Samsung or Tesla which I thought was odd, although I guess anyone can manufacture a Li-ion Cell, I would imagine that you can't patent a Cell, or maybe you can.

 

When these new 2170 Cell's come to Ebike's I would imagine the std battery pack will be close on 1000w. with only a nominal increase in weight over current 500w battery packs, and for the same price.

 

It's all looking good, for the near future.

Yep, Tesla apparently are to start a soft production run of the Model 3 this month, to iron out the glitches before the main ramp up in June.

 

Of course each car requires around 7000 of the new 2170 Cells, so there is not going to be many 2170 Cells going spare untill at least 2018.

 

Your link does not refer to Panasonic/Samsung or Tesla which I thought was odd, although I guess anyone can manufacture a Li-ion Cell, I would imagine that you can't patent a Cell, or maybe you can.

 

When these new 2170 Cell's come to Ebike's I would imagine the std battery pack will be close on 1000w. with only a nominal increase in weight over current 500w battery packs, and for the same price.

 

It's all looking good, for the near future.

 

 

Nice, I'll be up for one of them, After 2 years of use my turnigy multistar 8000mah lipos are slowly dying cell by cell, i lost 1 cell last week, and another cell this morning was found at 0v so i'm canibbalising the packs to keep my bike running, but expect i'll need a new battery by the summer

I bet there is already poor quality copies in manufacture and will be on sale soon.

Rhboy must have a crystal ball as when they do come to ebikes I don't see the pucker ones being sold cheaply initially. With development/production and costs the EV carmarket being the main customer, I see the ebike 21700 battery with double range and ah being an astronomical price akin to oem Bosch batteries. Time will tell !!!

i was told about 30 quid each cell or 2 for 50 quid when they get a damaged pack from a model 3 tesla.

Yep, Tesla apparently are to start a soft production run of the Model 3 this month, to iron out the glitches before the main ramp up in June.

 

Of course each car requires around 7000 of the new 2170 Cells, so there is not going to be many 2170 Cells going spare untill at least 2018.

 

Your link does not refer to Panasonic/Samsung or Tesla which I thought was odd, although I guess anyone can manufacture a Li-ion Cell, I would imagine that you can't patent a Cell, or maybe you can.

 

When these new 2170 Cell's come to Ebike's I would imagine the std battery pack will be close on 1000w. with only a nominal increase in weight over current 500w battery packs, and for the same price.

 

It's all looking good, for the near future.

 

I think that particular German company uses Panasonic cells.

We will have to see what ah size they come up with 4.5,4.75,5 or higher up to 6 in years to come.

4750mah seems possible as I here a 35% inc in capacity is assumed.

I assume we won't be seeing 50 cell10s 5p's other wise batteries will be huge but then again we have the new shark and killer whale packs currently with 10s 6p 18650's.

But even a10s 3p pack using SW's comment would be at least £750 - £900 for a battery minimum and if a modest 4500mah cell is used a battery would only be 13.5ah.

So a 10s 4p would be better with 4750mah cells for a 19ah 75-100 mile range battery for touring or longer rides to the seaside and back.

Nice, I'll be up for one of them, After 2 years of use my turnigy multistar 8000mah lipos are slowly dying cell by cell, i lost 1 cell last week, and another cell this morning was found at 0v so i'm canibbalising the packs to keep my bike running, but expect i'll need a new battery by the summer

 

How many charge cycles? I have gone off Multistar because my 4S 10000 mAh was bad from the beginning. First cell 3 was weaker and now cell 1 is stronger than the others... The Graphene packs on the other hand has been rock solid, charges faster and are balanced to within 0.01V so far.

How many charge cycles? I have gone off Multistar because my 4S 10000 mAh was bad from the beginning. First cell 3 was weaker and now cell 1 is stronger than the others... The Graphene packs on the other hand has been rock solid, charges faster and are balanced to within 0.01V so far.

 

I have been looking at the G packs as a possible future investment until the new 21700 batteries become available in the next 18/24 months but think the price will be prohibitive, so the G's might be an option esp as they quote 5c charge rates versus 2c for MS. Currently see 6s 8ah G' for £48 a pop, the 6.6 4s are sub £36 but no 6s on offer.

Gradually I think we will see MS availability become less with the Lihv and the G's taking preference as newer batt tech replaces old, the battery outlook for lion and lipo in the next 5 years looks interesting with better tech and more range coming on tap.

Nice, I'll be up for one of them, After 2 years of use my turnigy multistar 8000mah lipos are slowly dying cell by cell, i lost 1 cell last week, and another cell this morning was found at 0v so i'm canibbalising the packs to keep my bike running, but expect i'll need a new battery by the summer

Keep an eye on HobbyKing a couple times a week as they randomly put these on sale at half price.

There are 6S batteries in those voltages but they have sold out.

 

I'm looking at the 5.2 4S which I would like to use in 2P3S for a 10.4 Ah 44.4 V battery that would fit in the frame and cost 169€ to be compared with a new 10.4 Ah 36 V Li-ion at 269€ that doesn't fit in the frame

 

Haven't tried 2C charging yet because they charge so much faster than MS at 1C! I am sure that they give back over 90% of the Ah printed on the label.

Yep, Tesla apparently are to start a soft production run of the Model 3 this month, to iron out the glitches before the main ramp up in June.

.

 

They quote 100% capacity increase for 50% volume increase in the video referenced above.

5750-6000 Ah quoted in the video (the guy has a very thick accent).

 

The lowest capacity would mean a 17.25 Ah 36 V battery in 3P10S. I want one of those! 30 slightly larger and heavier cells for a decent capacity (621 Wh) is ideal for e-bike use.

his selective use of words is apalling. He said 18650 cells 'translates to maximum electrical charge of around 3,000mAH' - 'translate' and 'around' are used to put down the competition. We know that 18650s in 3,300, 3,400, and 3,500mAH even are cheap and plentifully available today. He selected use of 'tested within the region of 5,750' for the 21700 may hook a few fish but there is a big difference between tested to and guaranteed specs.

Keep an eye on HobbyKing a couple times a week as they randomly put these on sale at half price.

 

Thanks

 

I did think of buying another 8000mah battery and taking it apart for its cells, and just repairing my current ones, and its probably the best option really as i have 2x6s 8000mah and 4x4s 8000mah that i combine into a 16ah 14s battery when needed, but mostly just use a single 8000mah 14s pack for most of my riding

IMO, the 21700 format cell is almost an irrelevance for the ebike market. The advantage of this cell is lower pack production costs and higher pack reliability due to a lower total cell count. For a car sized battery this is a big advantage, but for small bike batteries, not so much.

 

However, the elephant in the room is that the larger format cell actually has a lower energy and power density than the old 18650 format cells. This will result in larger and heavier battery packs than we currently have.

 

This might (should) change in the future as the new format is developed and improved, but don't expect too much in the next few years.

Edited February 12, 20179 yr by danielrlee

IMO, the 21700 format cell is almost an irrelevance for the ebike market. The advantage of this cell is lower pack production costs and higher pack reliability due to a lower total cell count. For a car sized battery this is a big advantage, but for small bike batteries, not so much.

 

However, the elephant in the room is that the larger format cell actually has a lower energy and power density than the old 18650 format cells. This will result in larger and heavier battery packs than we currently have.

 

This might (should) change in the future as the new format is developed and improved, but don't expect too much in the next few years.

 

These new cells were looking promising, but lower density hardly looks like a step forward.

 

Greater reliability and lower manufacturing cost is a benefit, but a significant increase in pack capacity in relation to pack weight and volume - which is what's needed - still looks a long way off.

How many charge cycles? I have gone off Multistar because my 4S 10000 mAh was bad from the beginning. First cell 3 was weaker and now cell 1 is stronger than the others... The Graphene packs on the other hand has been rock solid, charges faster and are balanced to within 0.01V so far.

 

how many clycle did you have on graphene? i'm using my same ncr18650pf for 1.5 year now and have gradually lost 2s out of the pack. I'd need replacement soon, maybe with something that can handle more daily abuse

I haven't ridden much over the winter so they don't have many charges yet.

maybe with something that can handle more daily abuse

 

graphene has low internal resistance, would suit large DD motors for riding in cities better than a large Lithium-ion pack.