Oxygen also have many years' experience and will have excellent back up. They will be here for years to come offering real stability of supply of spare parts. Their biggest advantage is they sell through a dealer network, if an owner has a problem they can get their bike serviced locally.

 

We have recently seen 8 and 9 year old Ebikes being sold on this forum. These bikes have lasted so long because all the components have been properly thought through and they have been regularly serviced by experts locally. This does tend to make dealer sold bikes a little more expensive but local service is worth every penny.

 

Also worth remembering that companies selling through dealers normally make less margin than direct sellers. This can be done because the dealer is looking after the aftersales part of the business, thus earning their money.

 

All the best, David

Also worth remembering that companies selling through dealers normally make less margin than direct sellers.

that's true but direct sellers have to provide comparatively a more comprehensive service. We supply on trade terms to a very small number of bike shops, I know the difference.

I completely agree! I think that's what I said?

 

All the best, David

oh yes, sorry, should have read more carefully!

No worries!

 

I know you guys do a great job supporting your customers, we simply have a different business model.

 

All the best, David

That frame looks remarkably like the Oxygen....

It looks similiar to an Oxygen but the rear frame part is different, the bit which connects to the seat frame is lower on the Oxygen, now I remember they changed something a few years back on the Oxygen because something bust when a suspension seatpost was added, maybe that's why the rear frame connects lower down to that seat frame, I dunno, I think they made something stronger but again I don't know the specifics of what.

If your comparing with the Oxygen MTB, it has a cassette motor and cassette gears, which are chalk and cheese compared with Shimano Tourney freewheel gears. It has Suntour XCM forks which are a step up from XCT. Chainset means chainwheels and cranks. The Oxygen has tripple chainrings Shimano Acera.

 

In the post above, I was comparing the S-cross CB, which is closer to yours and does have XCT forks and a freewheel motor, but it has an Acera chainset and derailleurs.

 

Do you know if your controller uses current control or speed control for the PAS levels? Current control is sometimes called "torque simulation" by the Chinese. If it's from KT, it's probably current control. I think LiShui is always speed control, but I'm not sure. Others can be anything, though not often current control.

Any off-the-shelf bikes use current control P.A.S.?

The Oxygen has three current levels as well as 6 speed levels, so 18 combinations. I'm pretty sure Cyclotricity uses KT controllers, and anything you get from Panda probably has too. I've got a feeling that the Wisper Torque does. it's certainly nice. Most crank-drives should have it, though it's not guaranteed with any cheap odd-ball ones.

There's probably loads of other brands using it, and I bet they couldn't even tell you if they were. Most of them wouldn't be able to tell you anything at all about the controller. The only way to find out is to set it to a low PAS level and see how much power you get when you start. Interestingly, the speed control ones often also have that annoying delay in starting and stopping with the pedal sensor.

The Oxygen has three current levels as well as 6 speed levels, so 18 combinations. I'm pretty sure Cyclotricity uses KT controllers, and anything you get from Panda probably has too. I've got a feeling that the Wisper Torque does. it's certainly nice. Most crank-drives should have it, though it's not guaranteed with any cheap odd-ball ones.

There's probably loads of other brands using it, and I bet they couldn't even tell you if they were. Most of them wouldn't be able to tell you anything at all about the controller. The only way to find out is to set it to a low PAS level and see how much power you get when you start. Interestingly, the speed control ones often also have that annoying delay in starting and stopping with the pedal sensor.

Is it more economic on the battery than just limiting speed?

Probably not, but there's a lot of factors involved that can influence the consumption.

 

The current control gives you a fixed level of current all the time you pedal, regardless of speed.

 

Speed control will give a higher initial current, but if you're set to level 1, current might stop at 10 mph, so if you're pedalling at 12 mph, you don't use any battery.

 

Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. The speed control gives you automatic power control. It'll increase the power as you slow down up a hill, but can be a bit fierce at start-up. I hope you don't think that i'm ageist or sexist, but I've seen many middle-aged women trying an e-bike for the first time. They get scared of that initial start-up with speed control controllers, so don't want to ride the bike again, even though you soon get used to it. The current control gives a much more comfortable start and predictable consumption.

Probably not, but there's a lot of factors involved that can influence the consumption.

 

The current control gives you a fixed level of current all the time you pedal, regardless of speed.

 

Speed control will give a higher initial current, but if you're set to level 1, current might stop at 10 mph, so if you're pedalling at 12 mph, you don't use any battery.

 

Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. The speed control gives you automatic power control. It'll increase the power as you slow down up a hill, but can be a bit fierce at start-up. I hope you don't think that i'm ageist or sexist, but I've seen many middle-aged women trying an e-bike for the first time. They get scared of that initial start-up with speed control controllers, so don't want to ride the bike again, even though you soon get used to it. The current control gives a much more comfortable start and predictable consumption.

Sounds like speed control is better for pulling away at junctions and also for technical off-road terrain. Yes you can up the current via the LCD with a current control system but that would involve fiddling, eh?

I prefer current control. I have a throttle for when I need instant power on demand. I was happy when I had speed control, but current control seems to suit me better. I don't think there's an answer to what's best, but I'd bet that after trying both systems, most people would prefer the current control. It just feels nicer.

I ride with assist level 1 or 2 (Southend is pretty flat) and use the thumb throttle to climb. Never found the need to fiddle with assist levels.

The Oxygen has three current levels as well as 6 speed levels, so 18 combinations. I'm pretty sure Cyclotricity uses KT controllers, and anything you get from Panda probably has too. I've got a feeling that the Wisper Torque does. it's certainly nice. Most crank-drives should have it, though it's not guaranteed with any cheap odd-ball ones.

There's probably loads of other brands using it, and I bet they couldn't even tell you if they were. Most of them wouldn't be able to tell you anything at all about the controller. The only way to find out is to set it to a low PAS level and see how much power you get when you start. Interestingly, the speed control ones often also have that annoying delay in starting and stopping with the pedal sensor.

 

Hi D8VEH - we use the dual-mode hall/no-hall silent power Lishui controllers now. They are much much better than Kunteng - and with the LCD screen you can have full control over the PAS power levels.

 

For our ECO customers that have just the LED screen we pre-program with our standard power-based assist model, but can adjust this before delivery based on customer requirements.

Hi D8VEH - we use the dual-mode hall/no-hall silent power Lishui controllers now. They are much much better than Kunteng - and with the LCD screen you can have full control over the PAS power levels.

Do they use speed control or current control for the PAS, or both?

it's both. A bit like the bafang BBS.

i can hit 15mph with a little effort on assist level 1.

That's why I can't see the point of haing 18 selections while 3-9 would do.

It is like having 27-speed on your e-bike.

it's both. A bit like the bafang BBS.

i can hit 15mph with a little effort on assist level 1.

That's why I can't see the point of haing 18 selections while 3-9 would do.

It is like having 27-speed on your e-bike.

Are you talking about the Oxygen system? If so you should have a go on one before commenting on it from some theoretical point of view without understanding how it works. There's two separate controls. one is for power and the other is for speed and an associated power profile. You wouldn't normally adjust the power on an ad hoc basis, but it gives you a chance to adjust the overall power to match your needs. A light rider or a medium rider with fairly flat rides might choose power level 1, then use the six speed/power controls to adjust the power and speed as the ride demands. A heavy rider or someone with a lot of difficult hills would most likely choose power level 3.

 

Having extra options is always useful when you want to use them. There's nothing to compel anybody to use them, but in this case, there's no penalty for having them. it's purely optional what power or speed you want to use, when you want, how you want. Why would anyone not want the choice?

Hi Ben,

Hatti does not want to work with cyclescheme.co.uk

I've tried many times to ask her to sign up with them but she won't change her mind.

I am sorry.

 

So six months has passed - is there any change regarding Woosh dealing with cyclescheme?

So six months has passed - is there any change regarding Woosh dealing with cyclescheme?

Hatti still does not like their terms, so still no further progress.

Basically, the terms do not allow including cyclescheme's commission in the total cost of the bike.

Hatti still does not like their terms, so still no further progress.

Basically, the terms do not allow including cyclescheme's commission in the total cost of the bike.

 

How about if I were to request a certificate value 10% higher in value, to cover the cyclescheme admin fee? I did this successfully last year with a different ebike kit supplier

 

Alternatively, I'd be happy to make a separate cash payment to cover the cyclescheme 10% fee

Edited December 6, 20178 yr by jarob10

Hatti still does not like their terms, so still no further progress.

Basically, the terms do not allow including cyclescheme's commission in the total cost of the bike.

 

 

Alternatively, I'd be happy to make a separate cash payment to cover the cyclescheme 10% fee

Hatti still does not like their terms, so still no further progress.

Basically, the terms do not allow including cyclescheme's commission in the total cost of the bike.

 

I'm not surprised Hatti doesn't like their terms. cyclescheme.co.uk now charge 15% commission!

I'm not surprised Hatti doesn't like their terms. cyclescheme.co.uk now charge 15% commission!

 

But surely if the punter pays the commission then Hatti wouldn't have an issue with cyclescheme.co.uk?

Are you talking about the Oxygen system? If so you should have a go on one before commenting on it from some theoretical point of view without understanding how it works. There's two separate controls. one is for power and the other is for speed and an associated power profile. You wouldn't normally adjust the power on an ad hoc basis, but it gives you a chance to adjust the overall power to match your needs. A light rider or a medium rider with fairly flat rides might choose power level 1, then use the six speed/power controls to adjust the power and speed as the ride demands. A heavy rider or someone with a lot of difficult hills would most likely choose power level 3.

Just seen this and thought I'd add my ha'p'orth: I find the Oxygen system useful. Most of the time I'm in Eco mode, usually on power level 5 or 6 and that suits me fine. If I'm on bridleways or towpaths, I'll rein things in to level 3 or 4. However, if I've been out of the saddle a while - as I have been recently - I might move to Normal mode. That gives me a boost and makes life easier & that's what ebikes are all about, isn't it? Once in a while, if I have battery life left on the way home, I'll crank it up to Power mode and blast along the local country roads. So, it's good to know I have the option to adjust the mode, should it be needed. Changing mode can be done whilst riding - if you're familiar with the controls, but adjusting the power level within modes is a piece of cake and easily done even with winter gloves on.

I'm just lazy and leave mine on high power mode, and max assist....ive done 24 miles comfortably on that setting